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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Nagi Yanagi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zzzoom (talk · contribs) 14:41, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]


GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    • It be helpful if some of the tables in Discography were sortable. Also, there are some tables with useless rows in that section.
    Not sure how to do that, maybe @AngusWOOF: can help here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    The discography table doesn't need to be sortable but I would recommend title be listed in the first column as with Koda Kumi discography. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 11:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    That's how artist biographies are usually written though, right? A summary of their releases? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose so, after looking back. Zoom (talk page) 02:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
    • Not sure that this is a source relating to the topic.
    I've replaced it with an archive link; it seems the site got squatted since the time of publication. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • It would be helpful in the future to archive all of your references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzzoom (talk • contribs) 22:31, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Is this a requirement or just a recommendation? Just for clarification. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Just a recommendation! My bad. Zoom (talk page) 02:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    As I've mentioned to you on Discord, no free images of Yanagi are known to exist, so not much I can do on that end. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Overall:
    • @Narutolovehinata5:@Juhachi:Just make sure to follow through with the previously mentioned recommendations. Otherwise, good job!
    Pass/Fail:

"Nagi Yanagi" or "Yanaginagi"?[edit]

Is "Nagi Yanagi" is true for the name of this page? I don't sure that Nagi Yanagi is her real name (due to her name やなぎなぎ in Japanese is written in hiragana only, not kanji), and at the both her official website (ttps://yanaginagi.net/) and her official Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCty-AHEQn5dkYr2oq6fd4yw), the romaji/Latin script of her stage name is written as "Yanaginagi" (no space), not "Yanagi Nagi" or "Nagi Yanagi". I think this wiki page should be changed to "Yanaginagi" because of her official stage name. Dorakyula (talk) 06:39, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I am from Chinese wiki. I was in the middle of a discussion for changing the article name of the Chinese page, someone had changed it from "Yanaginagi"(in English) to an unofficial Chinese translation, and I proposed reverting to "yanaginagi". It sure is weird that the English page name is "Nagi Yanagi", I have never seen this and it should not be split since it is not a normal last-name-first-name kind of Japanese name, it should be treated as one word. Also, do note that the official name seem to use a lower case "y", hence "yanaginagi" instead of "Yanaginagi". Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 05:26, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 May 2024[edit]

Nagi Yanagi → Yanaginagi – current name is wrong, see above for explanation, I cannot move it as I am not autoconfirmed, please make the "y" in the name small letter if possible, thank you. Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 09:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 01:26, 2 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 14:17, 9 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 20:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose First, "yanaginagi/Nagi Yanagi" (やなぎなぎ) is definitely a pseudonym—for example, in this interview with Nippon Cultural Broadcasting, the first question is about the origin of her name, and she replies that she chose "yanagi" because she likes ja:柳色 ("willow color"; willow = "yanagi" in Japanese) and added "nagi" because the repetition makes it easy to remember. This article should probably make it clearer that it's not her real name.
WP:COMMONNAME says to look at what independent, reliable, English-language sources call her. In this case, the number of sources is fairly small, but a quick search shows that "Nagi Yanagi" is more prevalent in such sources (e.g. [1] [2]).
However, the vast majority of sources about her are in Japanese; WP:UE says that if there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject. In my opinion, Japanese sources clearly treat the pseudonym as a surname + given name rather than a single name. Sources like the above interview, [3] from Animate Times, and [4], [5], and [6] from Natalie shorten her name to "Yanagi" (やなぎ) or call her "Yanagi-san" (やなぎさん), thereby treating "Yanagi" as a surname (and it's a perfectly valid surname). The name on her X profile [7] is "Nagi" (なぎ), a perfectly valid given name. Therefore, since Japanese sources treat やなぎなぎ as a regular Japanese name, I think it's entirely reasonable for the article title to follow the conventional way of romanizing Japanese names specified in WP:JTITLE, which includes a space. Malerisch (talk) 23:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It surely is a pseudonym and not a real name, this is very clear.
Regarding "Japanese sources clearly treat the pseudonym as a surname + given name rather than a single name", I am not so sure. Firstly, please do notice that other names that she had used in the past includes "ガゼル" and "nagi", this can be seen on the ja wiki page.
Shortening "yanaginagi" to "yanagi" does not mean it is treated as a surname. Think Snoop Dogg, you can call him Snoop, that's a "first name" at best, not to mention the full name would be better in most occasions. It also seems that san can be added to both first names and last names, though I don't speak Japanese and can't be sure about this. Shortening a name can also be friendly way to refer to the person, just like saying Alex instead of Alexander, Sam instead of Samuel. I would say claiming the name to be a "surname + given name" or "regular Japanese name" is purely WP:Original research.
Let me put it this way, "やなぎなぎ" is one word, and at least from Japanese sources, I do not think there is any official source (from herself, anime, songs) that shows anything other than "やなぎなぎ" and "yanaginagi"(small letter y, maybe all caps, definitely one word). The interviews you listed all show the full name when mentioning it for the first time, and used abbreviations afterwards. Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 07:52, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We're discussing how to transcribe やなぎなぎ into English—per WP:TRANSCRIPTION, this is not considered original research.
Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PSEUDONYM, the English Wikipedia doesn't (mainly) care about the "official" spelling of a name, and name stylizations are usually removed: e.g. Lisa, not LiSA; Yoasobi, not YOASOBI; Ufotable, not ufotable. (I noticed that the Chinese Wikipedia uses the stylized name as the title for these articles, so perhaps the naming policies for the English and Chinese Wikipedias are different.)
I don't think there's any equivalence between shortening "yanaginagi" to "yanagi" and shortening e.g. "Alexander" to "Alex". There are ways of shortening names in Japanese (e.g. with chan or kun), but san is not normally used for that; it's just attached to Japanese names as a standard sign of respect. It's pretty clear that the interviews treat "Yanagi" as the equivalent of a surname. Malerisch (talk) 11:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I fail to recognize why there is a need for transcription in the first place. "yanagiangi" is from official sources and is read exactly the same as "やなぎなぎ", there is not even a "r" "l" problem or "Tokyo" "Tōkyō" problem, unless you read it as "yan-ah-gi-ah-gi" or something. Also there is no reliable source that suggests there should be a space or it should be split.
Choice of "san" over "chan" or "kun" is most likely to maintain a certain level of formality, or as you said, respect, since the interviewer probably did not know her in person.
As for stylizing names, I must say the en wiki rules are strange, but it doesn't bother me too much so I'll leave it there. Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 13:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging User:Narutolovehinata5 and User:Juhachi. Since they wrote most of this page and took it to GA, they probably have informed opinions on the matter. I'm a little surprised they haven't commented yet and take this as a sign they may not be aware of this discussion. Toadspike [Talk] 02:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd have to oppose per Malerisch. Although official Japanese sources do use Yanaginagi, English sources are more mixed and if anything lean against using it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A quick search brings me to Apple Music (us, uk) and Spodify (en), please note that both services show the Japanese name on jp site (Apple Music, Spodify) and to state the obvious, both allow spaces in names but kept "yanaginagi", also note they do adopt the western name order for names like Konomi Suzuki (Apple Music, Spodify). Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 03:52, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm also inclined to oppose a name change, mainly because there is no obvious reason to switch the article title to Yanaginagi per the use of Nagi Yanagi prevalent in English sources, and that Japanese sources, both third-party and primary, do not have a set pattern in how they refer to this artist, as shown by Malerisch above. Even ANN used both "Nagi Yanagi" and "yanaginagi" in articles less than a month apart last year: [8], [9].--十八 19:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there reliable source that uses "Nagi yanagi"? Regarding the 2 links that you provided, I would say the first one seems a bit more reliable, it is a "press release" about a CD release and a live concert event, whereas the second article is "news" and the sources listed on the are Japanese sources, which meant the writer probably did some translations. I would say a large proportion of "Nagi yanagi" on the internet got the name from en wiki, which would make it WP:CIRCULAR and WP:CITOGENESIS? Imagine a laymen seeing the Japanese string ""やなぎなぎ" for the first time, they dump it into Google to see what that is, and guess what they will see first. Searching "yanaginagi" gives me results like official website, socials, Apple Music and Spotify, whereas for "Nagi yanagi" you get a bunch of WP:USERGENERATED. Sohryu Asuka Langley Not Shikinami (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't really matter if the hits are user generated; if anything, they might actually be more useful in certain cases since they can show how people in general refer to something. If more user generated sources call her "Nagi Yanagi" and not "Yanaginagi", an argument could be made that Nagi Yanagi is the more common name. WP:COMMONNAME is relevant here. It's not always the case that the official title is the most appropriate title for an article, or even if it's the most used. We don't call the book "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life," we just call it On the Origin of Species. Similarly, while the official English title for Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai is "Haganai: I Don't Have Many Friends," our article just calls it Haganai.
I would also suggest avoiding replying to every single editor that opposes your opinion as it may give other editors the impression that you are bludgeoning the process. If ultimately consensus goes against the rename then so be it. For what it's worth, I would have preferred LiSA's article to remain at that title and not Lisa, but ultimately that opinion is against consensus and I have to live with that. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 21:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think WP:COMMONNAME is not very helpful here when the sources are inconsistently switching between the two variants. Now I obviously oppose "yanaginagi" because it is a stylisation, but i do not see the problem with using "Yanagi Nagi". Maybe we should disregard ANN here because it has inconsistently mentioned the artist and measure other sources that have consistently used one variant, such as Billboard and Arama Japan. (if we exclude "official" sources, we are left with a lot of user-generated sources, and "Yanagi Nagi" is more prevalent in such sources.) Also, in almost all of the interviews i could find, "Yanagi Nagi" was more prevalent. Lunar-akaunto／talk 17:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Apologies, but I'm going to retract my previous comment here because, though Billboard mentions her as Yanagi Nagi, it mentions other artists too in native order, for example, Yonezu Kenshi. About Arama Japan–so a while back i stumbled upon this Wikipedia list of unreliable sources, and it was listed there. I can't find it in the list anymore, if someone does know about it, please link me to it. But Arama Japan is also mentioning other artists with their stylisations but hasn't done the same for Yanagi; now I'm not sure what to make of it.
About Anime News Network: it has always consistently mentioned the artist as Nagi Yanagi; see, it has only in one instance mentioned her as "yanaginagi," but that's the stylisation. In proper English without stylisation, it uses Nagi Yanagi. Also note that even her official website header reads Nagi Yanagi; "https://yanaginagi.net : やなぎなぎ OFFICIAL WEBSITE - Nagi Yanagi"
This is pretty much cased closed as not moved if we're going for reliable third party unofficial sources. This discussion can definitely go on longer, but I only see the end result as "Nagi Yanagi". But if we're going for WP:COMMONNAME, definitely "Yanagi Nagi" without a doubt. Maybe disregard her official website, all music services refer to her as "yanaginagi". Now we were supposed to write it as "Yanagi Nagi" (stylized as yanaginagi) but instead we changed the order to western based on ANN and Crunchyroll. These are the only two independent, reliable sources I could find that refer to her as such. The entire fandom refers to her as "Yanagi Nagi", which includes YouTube videos, fandom wiki, random forum posts, quite literally anything user-generated present in abundance. The majority of all of them refer to her as "Yanagi Nagi".
Also, I would suggest changing "stylized as yanaginagi (やなぎなぎ)" to "stylized as yanaginagi" because "yanaginagi" is the stylisation used in English, right? So, "やなぎなぎ" is not really needed because they always mention their names without spaces in Japanese, and since she never used "yanaginagi" in Japanese, that makes "やなぎなぎ" not a stylisation at all. Lunar-akaunto／talk 13:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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