Talk:Neger (torpedo)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ships, a project to improve all Ship-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please join the project, or contribute to the project discussion. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.ShipsWikipedia:WikiProject ShipsTemplate:WikiProject ShipsShips articles

Military history: Maritime / European / German / World War II C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Maritime warfare task force
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	World War II task force

Germany C‑class Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
C	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Neger = nigger?[edit]

Doesn't "neger" mean "negro"? Manxruler 00:25, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

it´s a common misunderstanding that the german word "neger" is the same as the american "nigger". That is really not true. "Neger" was for a long time the normal word for black people from africa (engl.: negro). Maybe the origin can be found in the latin word "niger". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.146.170.97 (talk) 17:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then I think we should change the "nigger" reference in this article, unless someone should protest. I speak ok German and I've never thought of the word neger as any different to negro, not a very nice word, but not as bad as nigger. Manxruler 07:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, just did a The New English-German Dictionary[1] check and neger certainly means negro, not nigger. Manxruler 07:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a black German let me tell you sth. about the German "Neger". "Neger" def. has a very negative connotation. The reason that white people claim "Neger" would only have a neutral sense is that they do not challenge the meaning of such words. But "Neger" is abviously linked to negative attributes: Neger are lazy and stupid, fuck the whole day, have all Aids, snatch white women, e.g. to get a passport and so on.

Btw: You can find the derrogative meaning in sayings like "Bin ich dein Neger?" = "Am I your Neger?" in the meaning that one doesn't want to do a job for a person who is below him/her in the hierarchy, "I mach einen Negerjob" = "I have a Negerjob" in the meaning, that one has a very simple job (below your qualifications), perhaps a job you can do as a unqualified person. Last but not least: "Neger abseilen" = "to let a Neger down on a rope" in the meaning of "to shit".

You will not find such informations in publications as The New English-German Dictionary since in the editorial offices of all these publications usually sit member of white majority society" -- which, I mentioned it above, do not challenge such words. Just my 2 cent. 10. September 2010

Regardless of any connotation, "Neger" was what these torpedos were called, apparently a pun on the designer's name "Mohr" (="moor"). Should that be explained, does it need a cite, or is it self-evident? --Syzygy (talk) 06:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Changed this back. The Duden is pretty clear on this: 'Die Bezeichnung Neger gilt im öffentlichen Sprachgebrauch als stark diskriminierend und wird deshalb vermieden.' -> i.e. 'The term Neger is deemed strongly discriminatory and therefore avoided in public use of language' [Duden entry], plenty of other refs [here] 90.196.191.37 (talk) 16:15, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary says "Usage of Neger has been declining since the 1950s, and aside from right-wing extremists, most remaining users are over 60 (as of 2016). In modern speech it is considered discriminatory and derogatory, and therefore avoided." Fairly clearly at the time it was more of a congener of negro (again at that time) than any other term. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:07, 29 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]

What?[edit]

"Two major assaults were done with JUDE vessels..."-That's great, but there seems to be no previous explanation of what JUDE vessels are.--172.191.53.13 (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Doubtless vandalism. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:09, 29 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]

Requested move 15 October 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved with slight modifications. The dab page will be moved to the base name, and "torpedo" will be a parenthetical disambiguator as it appears that is slightly more popular and is generally more consistent with similar articles (ex. Marder (midget submarine)). (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 18:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neger → Neger torpedo – I propose moving the current page to Neger torpedo and move the page Neger to Neger (disambiguation) as per WP:COMMON and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. "Neger" and "Negerin" is negro and negress (or colloquially the N-word) in German. It is not a torpedo. The torpedo might be named "Neger" due to its color. Another (in)famous example for using "Neger" as black is for Waldemar Dammer, known as "Neger Waldi", a black brothel owner who was killed by Werner Pinzner. Thus, I do not think the torpedo is primary topic FuzzyMagma (talk) 14:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, but with a slight difference. I would suggest "Neger torpedo", because putting something in parentheses is normally for disambiguation. There is no other article using the word "Neger" in its title, so it's not really a disambiguation. However, the current title doesn't satisfy WP:PRECISION: "titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article". "Neger" doesn't tell the reader what the article is about. "Neger torpedo" gives a clear indication of the subject. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:53, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with “Neger torpedo” FuzzyMagma (talk) 14:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose redirecting Neger to Negro, we should just move Neger (disambiguation) to that page. There are various people named Neger (some are missing from enwiki like Ernst Neger [de] and Thomas Neger [de]) and it is not at all clear that "Negro" is usually the intended target for "Neger" in English. Neutral on the parentheses for the torpedo. —Kusma (talk) 07:43, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kusma I understand your point but I think making a different Neger (surname) similar to Negro (surname) is far better FuzzyMagma (talk) 14:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Having "Neger" redirect to "Negro" means we'd have to add yet another hatnote to Negro, which is undesirable. Your proposal would make things worse at that page without improving anything else. When in doubt, disambiguation is cleanest, so that is what we should do, and anything we need to add can be said at that disambiguation page. French Nègre, by the way, redirects to the disambiguation/surname page negre. —Kusma (talk) 15:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok amended above FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then I can support, although of course Neger (disambiguation) will need to be moved to Neger per our conventions for dabs. —Kusma (talk) 10:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Probably move the DAB page instead. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I have amended the move to DAB FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I don't think it is really important that Neger is also a German word; this is the english language Wikipedia, thus I don't assume that someone who is looking for negro enters Neger in the search box. However, if I take a look at the present Neger (disambiguation), I don't think that the Neger torpedo is the primary topic. Thus, my opinion is: "Neger" should be the disambiguation page, which a redirect from "Neger (disambiguation)" to "Neger", and the torpedo ~~should be described in "Neger torpedo"~~. --Cyfal (talk) 06:16, 17 October 2023 (UTC) After reading Necrothesp's contribution: Yes, the torpedo should then be described in "Neger (torpedo)". --Cyfal (talk) 13:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move Neger to Neger (torpedo) and move Neger (disambiguation) to Neger. No primary topic. No evidence it was referred to as the "Neger torpedo". -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.