Talk:New Journalism/Archive 1

Archive 1

Expansion

We really need some kind of help from an expert on this. Terribly written, overall.

Just getting into the conversation. Who made the statement above? (no signature)? --Ill seletorre 01:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Where it comes from...

Wolfe is credited because he wrote an essay on the subject, which is included with an anthology of representative work by 21 authors, _The_New_Journalism. In that book, he states that he "never even liked the term."

"Seymour Krim tells me that he first heard it used in 1965 when he was editor of Nugget and Pete Hamlin called him and said he wanted to write an article called "The New Journalism" about people like Jimmy Breslin and Gay Talese. It was late in 1966 when you first started hearing people talk about "the New Journalism" in conversation."

The term was first used in 1887, but the current use (codified by Wolfe) probably started in the 1960s. The term is still used.

Fellow New Journalism Talkers: Any author attributed to this section? --Ill seletorre 01:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Frank Sinatra Has A Cold

This article, which is often referenced to this day, needs to be both mentioned on this page and have one of its own created. RoyBatty42 19:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

RoyBatty42: A search for an article titled "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold" yields no results. Can you refer to the article and the context in which it is "referenced to this day"? Thank you, --Ill seletorre 01:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No results? You must have entered the search completely wrong. It's a really famous profile from Esquire magazine by Gay Talese. "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold" -- it's recognized by the editors in Esquire as the greatest story they've ever run. --JayHenry 01:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

My fault, I should have specified "on Wikipedia." This looks great. I definitely agree its own page should be made and mention of it in this article as well (though I should read the piece first). I'll take a look at the article when I can and maybe start its page, unless you beat me to it. --Ill seletorre 07:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I finally got around to creating the Frank Sinatra Has a Cold page. Luckily the article is still available from Esquire online and it was pretty easy to find good sources. --JayHenry 16:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Article lead

I find the definition quite unclear in the lead and it would be of good practice to clarify the term a little more beyond the current phrasing:

• "[New Journalism] used literary techniques deemed unconventional at the time"

Let me know if you have any suggestions here (feel free to implement as well). Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 10:44, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Riposte

Calicocat, I think you have a valid point about genres being larger than one person, but the phrase New Journalism is an often-used designation for a particular style of writing, and Wolfe is universally acknowledged as its first practitioner. It would be a disservice to simply redirect this article to one on Literary Journalism. New Journalism is relevant in its own right, particularly in its historical context. When Wolfe wrote Kandy-Kolored it was a radical departure from the style of the time.

A more interesting question, and one that I don't have the answer to right now is, who actually bestowed the name New Journalism? Was it Wolfe himself? It's not clear from the way this article is worded if it was him or someone else.

Rudder 02:22, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps a merge of information here into the article on Creative Nonfiction would be appropriate (Literary Journalism redirects there). I'm not sure if you can trace a history of New Journalism before Tom Wolfe - or rather, you can, but it's a bit muddy. Where does Social Realism end and Creative Nonfiction start? Is Orwell's The Road To Wigan Pier Creative Nonfiction? I think adding a merge proposal is a good idea. So that's what I've done... Liquidindian 06:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Rudder that "New Journalism is relevant in its own right" because of its part in history. As I understand it, the practice of New Journalism is now called Creative Nonfiction. Today, New Journalism refers to a specific historical development.

Secondly, it appears that the merge Liquidindian proposed is no longer in place. Does that mean we remove his proposal from this Talk page or does it remain for historical purposes? --Ill seletorre 01:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wolfe says that Gay Talese was the first practitioner and that Jimmy Breslin was an early practitioner as well.2602:306:3774:E8C0:60A0:7427:7C7F:CBA9 (talk) 01:07, 23 June 2014 (UTC)JS

1890s

Also the style that was in the 1890s for example by Pulitzer is often called new journalism, the style right before yellow journalism. It is different than this 1970s style of this article. There should be a discussion of that and a link to an article about that. Also for example the Josef Pulitzer links to this one incorrectly. The links to the earlier sort should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.125.230 (talk) 02:07, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

New Journalism vs Narrative Journalism

Two articles. It looks like what people in some cases refer to as "new journalism" is also referred to as "narrative journalism." Wikipedia currently has articles for both. Jaldous1 (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

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Expansion

An article based on the work of one man does not constitute a genre of journalist. Rather this article seems more a way of advocating the position Wolf takes. It's really more book review and interview with article clothing on.

The topic at hand is more generally known as Literary Journalism.

(quote) "When writers, readers, English teachers, librarians, bookstore people, editors, and reviewers discuss extended digressive narrative nonfiction these days, they're fairly likely to call it literary journalism. The previous term in circulation was Tom Wolfe's contentious "New Journalism." Coined in the rebellious mid-sixties, it was often uttered with a quizzical tone and has fallen out of use because the genre wasn't really alternative to some old journalism, and wasn't really new." (unquote)"Literary Journalism," by Mark Kramer.

This article should be renamed and expanded to get past its Tom Wolf accident. The topic, Ilterary Journalism, is a good one; some of what's said is on the right track. It needs some reworking and the right name, leaving a redirect from "new journalism." Comments? Calicocat 07:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not every subject has a "worldwide view"

From what I've read of the New Journalism movement, it seems to have been a Western, particularly Anglocentric, phenomenon (at least up until the last decade or so, in which the style has returned with a vengeance despite the article making it sound like an isolated thing from a lifetime ago). It seems to me that politically-motivated editors go around arbitrarily tagging articles with the Eurocentric/Anglocentric/<insert buzzword> template regardless of whether the subject or content actually merits, or is amenable to, a wider perspective. In short, not every subject has a "worldwide view" (nor is it of critical importance IMO, but then I'm not on board with any project involving """systemic bias""" so I digress). Elliott-AtomicInfinity (talk) 01:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I think you have some good points, but what are you suggesting to be done? Removing the anglocentric tag or something else? Primecut (talk) 08:11, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

Is there a year for the appearance of this first NJ work?

More Sources

• Capote, Truman (1966). In Cold Blood. Vintage. ISBN 0-679-74558-0.
• Truman, Capote (October 9, 1965). "Annals of Crime: In Cold Blood: III Answers". The New Yorker. pp. 58–183.
• Cartwright, Garth (May 12, 2001). "Master of the Rock Review". The Guardian. Guardian Media Group.
• Didion, Joan (May 7, 1966). "Some Dreamers of the Golden Dream". The Saturday Evening Post.
• Dunne, John Gregory (1969). The Studio. Farrar, Straus and Giroux. ISBN 0374271127.
• McQuade, Donald, ed. (1974). Popular Writing in America: The Interaction of Style and Audience. Oxford University Press.
• Plimpton, George (September 7, 1964). "Zero of the Lions". Sports Illustrated. Time Warner.
• Russello, Gerald J. (November 21, 2005). "How New Journalism Became Old News". The New York Sun. ONE SL LLC.
• Sack, John (October 1966). "M". Esquire. Hearst Corporation.
• Schuster, Mel, ed. (1971). Motion Picture Performers: A Bibliography of Magazine and Periodical Articles, 1900-1969. Scarecrow Press. ISBN 0810804077.
• Tate, Ryan (December 9, 2008). "The Nude Photos That Nearly Destroyed New York". Gawker.com. Gawker Media.
• Thompson, Hunter S. (May 17, 1965). "The Motorcycle Gangs, Losers and Outsiders". The Nation. Katrina vanden Heuvel.
• Tomalin, Nicholas (June 5, 1966). "The General Goes Zapping Charlie Cong". The Times. News Corporation.
• Wolfe, Tom (July 14, 2008). "A City Built of Clay". New York Magazine. New York Media LLC.
• Wolfe, Tom (February 14, 1972). "The Birth of 'The New Journalism'; Eyewitness Report by Tom Wolfe". New York Magazine. New York Media LLC. p. 44.
• Wolfe, Tom (February 21, 1972). "The New Journalism: A la Recherche des Whichy Thickets". New York Magazine. New York Media LLC. p. 152.
• Wolfe, Tom (December 1972). "Why They Aren't Writing the Great American Novel Anymore". Esquire. Hearst Corporation.
• "The 7 Greatest Stories in the History of Esquire Magazine". Esquire. Hearst Corporation. November 30, 2009. Retrieved December 31, 2009.