Talk:Ngo Dinh Diem/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Augustios Paleo (talk · contribs) 15:22, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
  • Suggestions will be in soon.
I nominated this a long time ago and actually thought I had taken it off nomination because it had been up for a while and there have been changes and edits to the article. But as it's now getting reviewed I will jump back on and give it a tidy up. Thanks and please bear with me! Lankyant (talk) 21:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
More edits will come after the following suggestions are implemented. AFH (talk) 18:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Lankyant Are you still interested in the review? Once you complete suggestions, please mark them as done and I will add more. AFH (talk) 08:31, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am! Apologies I've had an extremely busy week so not been able to have a look but will get to it in ybe next few days. Cheers Lankyant (talk) 17:09, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I made some edits, all that is left are the uncompleted suggestions below. Once those are implemented, I will promote this article. Thank you! AFH (talk) 11:35, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to promote as it would still qualify for the drive, but after you and I can implement the rest of the fixes. Respond when you are able to edit again. AFH (talk) 10:50, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other[edit]

  • For the names of historians, biographers, etc. say “the historian ___ stated” or along the lines of that. I edited the page with an example. I will do some edits if need be in the time before you are available as I want to finish this review before the 30th.

Lead[edit]

  • "a South Vietnamese politician who was the final prime minister of the State of Vietnam (1954–1955), and then was the first president of South Vietnam (Republic of Vietnam) from 1955 until he was captured and assassinated during the 1963 South Vietnamese coup." This sentence is a bit long and verbose. Maybe "a South Vietnamese politician who was the final prime minister of the State of Vietnam (1954–1955) and later the first president of South Vietnam (Republic of Vietnam) from 1955 until his capture and assassination during the 1963 South Vietnamese coup."
  • "final prime minister of the State of Vietnam (1954–1955)," the comma is unnecessary
  • "He was born into a prominent family, a member of the Catholic Church in Vietnam and the son of a high-ranking civil servant, Ngô Đình Khả. He was educated at French-speaking schools and considered following his brother Ngô Đình Thục into the priesthood, but eventually chose to pursue a civil-service career. He progressed rapidly in the court of Emperor Bảo Đại, becoming governor of Bình Thuận Province in 1929 and interior minister in 1933." The word he is repetitive
  • "However, he resigned the latter position after three months and publicly denounced the emperor as a tool of France. " should be from the latter position
  • "From 1957, he was" should be in
'from 1957 onwards' as 'in' didn't work Lankyant (talk) 02:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
“In 1957, he was…” AFH (talk) 18:46, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was born into a prominent family, a member of the Catholic Church in Vietnam and the son of a high-ranking civil servant, Ngô Đình Khả." this sentence is confusing, could use a rewrite.
  • "After several years in exile, Diệm returned home in July 1954 and was appointed prime minister by Bảo Đại." exile where?
  • "Diệm soon consolidated power in South Vietnam, aided by his brother Ngô Đình Nhu." rewrite to "Diệm, with the aid of Ngô Đình Nhu, soon consolidated power in South Vietnam."
  • "Diệm has been a controversial historical figure. Some historians have considered him a tool of the United States, while others portrayed him as an avatar of Vietnamese tradition. At the time of his assassination, he was widely considered to be a corrupt dictator.[2]" the prose does not need citations
All above done, I also added a link to Vietnam War as it seemed important to add. Lankyant (talk) 02:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Family and early life[edit]

  • This section could use some images, maybe some of family members?
I've added a photo of the family including Diem and his father. There are more of individual family members I could add but that one seemed the best fit.Lankyant (talk) 14:15, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alr cool, rest of suggestions will be in today. AFH (talk) 19:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • May take a bit longer, will be on a trip
  • comma before "and" in "National Academy in Huế (founded in 1896) and a counselor to Emperor Thành Thái of French "
  • "Like Phan Chu Trinh, Khả believed that independence from France could be achieved only after changes in Vietnamese politics, society and culture had occurred." comma after "society"
  • "After the tragedy that had befallen his family, Khả decided to abandon study" should be "studying"
  • remove comma after "life" in "It was there that he had the only romantic relationship of his life," and say "his interest" or "his lover" instead of "she" in "fter she chose to persist with her religious vocation and entered a convent, he remained celibate for the rest of his life."
  • "] Diệm's family background and education, especially Catholicism and Confucianism, had influences on his life and career, on his thinking on politics, society, and history. " rephrase, as it is a bit wordy and could be more concise. Something like "Diệm's family, educational, and religious values greatly influenced his life and career."
All above done Lankyant (talk) 22:00, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early career[edit]

  • "According to Fall, Diệm put the revolution down because he thought it could not sweep out the French administration, but might threaten the leadership of the mandarins." remove comma and this sentence is a bit confusing.
  • Put images of the left side of this section.
All above done Lankyant (talk) 22:00, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ” After graduating at the top of his class in 1921, Diệm followed in the footsteps of his eldest brother,[tone] Ngô Đình Khôi, joining the civil service in Thừa Thiên as a junior official. ” Fix tone, I recommend changing it to tones used in articles like Edward Drinker Cope and Ulysses Grant. Also, link Thừa Thiên.
  • ” royal library in Huế” state the specific library and link it.
  • ” Quảng Trị province” link
  • ” Diệm's rise was also facilitated through Ngô Đình Khôi's marriage to the daughter of Nguyễn Hữu Bài (1863–1935), the Catholic head of the Council of Ministers at the Huế court and also supported the indigenization of the Vietnamese Church and more administrative powers to the monarchy.” the word “facilitated” is repetitive, link Nguyễn Hữu Bài at first mention, and clarify who is supporting in the last half of the sentence.
  • ” Nguyễn Hữu Bài was highly regarded among the French administration and Diệm's religious and family ties impressed him and he became Diệm's patron” rewrite, doesn’t make sense.
  • ” The French were impressed by his work ethic but were irritated by his frequent calls to grant more autonomy to Vietnam.” The phrase “The French” is repetitive and “his” could mean Diem or Bai. Clarify. I would write “Paris was impressed…” or something like it.
  • “Diệm replied that he contemplated resigning but encouragement from the populace convinced him to persist.” Replied to what?
  • ” printing his pamphlets” maybe “spreading Anti-communist pamphlets”?
  • ” According to Fall” comma after Fall. Clarify who Fall is and split “ leadto”
  • ” With the start of the World War II in the Pacific, seeing an opportunity for Vietnam to challenge French colonization, he attempted to persuade the Japanese forces to declare independence for Vietnam in 1942 but was ignored. ” Limk “in the Pacific” to Pacific War and rephrase. I would say “In 1942, with the start of World War II in the Pacific, Diem saw an opportunity for Vietnam to achieve independence and attempted to persuade Japan to assist, though he was ignored.” (link to Empire of Japan when saying Japan)
  • ” He flew to Saigon under Japanese military protection, staying there until the end of WWII.[23]” link Saigon. Also you can just say “end of the war”
  • ” He declined initially, but reconsidered his decision and attempted to reverse the refusal.” change to “Though he declined at first, Diem reconsidered and attempted to take back his refusal though the position had gone to Trần Trọng Kim.”
  • ” In September 1945, after the Japanese withdrawal, Hồ Chí Minh proclaimed the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and in the Northern half of Vietnam, his Việt Minh began fighting the French administration. ” Change to “After the withdrawal of Japanese forces in September 1945, communist leader Hồ Chí Minh declared an independent socialist state, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, in the northern countryside. Minh then kickstarted the first Indochina War, rebelling against returning French forces.”
  • ” Diệm attempted to travel to Huế to dissuade Bảo Đại from joining Hồ but was arrested by the Việt Minh along the way and exiled to a highland village near the border. ” link Viet Minh
  • ” He might have died of malaria, dysentery, and influenza had the local tribesmen not nursed him back to health. ” When did he get sick? This needs context.
  • link “ National Union Bloc” and other organizations
  • ” At the same time, he lobbied French colonial officials for a "true independence" for Vietnam, Diệm was disappointed when in June 1948, Bảo Đại signed an agreement to grant Vietnam status as an "associated state" within the French Union, which allowed France to maintain its diplomatic, economic, and military policies in Vietnam.” This is a run-on sentence. Break it up. Maybe “Meanwhile, he lobbied French colonial officials for “true independence” for Vietnam, but was disappointed when Bao Dai agreed to French demands for an “associate state”…”

Exile[edit]

  • ” In 1951, Diệm flew to the United States to seek the support of government officials. Nevertheless, Diệm was not successful in winning US support for Vietnamese anti-communists.[36]” merge these sentences. Add images.
  • ” He also met with French and Vietnamese officials in Paris and sent a message indicating that he was willing to be the Prime Minister of the State of Vietnam to Bảo Đại. But Bảo Đại then refused to meet him.” don’t start sentences with “But” refuse.
  • ” In Rome, Diệm obtained an audience with Pope Pius XII at the Vatican before undertaking further lobbying across Europe.” Where in Europe?
  • starting sentences with “Diem” is repetitive.
  • link Michigan State University and Government Research Bureau
  • ”cold war allies” capitalize “Cold War” and link.
  • ” The Americans' assessments of Diệm were varied. Some were unimpressed with him, some admired him. ” remove the second sentence.

Becoming Prime Minister and consolidation of power[edit]

  • ”In early 1954, Bảo Đại offered Diệm the position of Prime Minister in the new government in Vietnam. In May 1954, the French surrendered at Điện Biên Phủ and the Geneva Conference began in April 1954. On 16 June 1954, Diệm met with Bảo Đại in France and agreed to be the Prime Minister if Bảo Đại would give him military and civilian control. On 25 June 1954, Diệm returned from exile, arriving at Tân Sơn Nhứt airport in Saigon. On 7 July 1954, Diệm established his new government with a cabinet of 18 people.[45]” This paragraph needs transition words at the start of sentences. Currently, it is organized like bullet pointed dates instead of a flowing paragraph. Something like “After his return to Vietnam, Diem established his own government and cabinet on July 7th.” and so on for other sentences.
  • ”In the first period of his premiership, Diệm did not have much power in the government; he lacked control of the military and police forces, and the civil system's key positions were still held by French officials. He also could not control the Bank of Indochina.” Merge sentences, something like “In the early period of his premiership, Diem lacked control of: the military and police forces, civil systems, which were still held by French officials, and the Bank of Indochina.”
  • ”Besides, Diệm had to face massive obstacles: refugee issues; the French colonists wanting to remove Diệm to protect France's interest in South Vietnam; General Nguyễn Văn Hinh, a Francophile, the leader of National Army was ready to oust Diệm; the leaders of the Hòa Hảo and Cao Đài sectarian armies wanted positions in Diệm's cabinet and complete administrative control over the areas in which they had large numbers of followers; and the major threat of Bình Xuyên, an organized crime syndicate that controlled the National Police led by Lê Văn Viễn, whose power was focused in Saigon.[46]” Need to break this up, confusing and is a run-on. Something like “Besides, Diệm had to face massive obstacles such as refugees, French opposition to Diem’s premiership, and General Nguyễn Văn Hinh, who threatened to overthrow Diem in favor of French rule…”
  • ”In summer 1954, the three organizations controlled approximately one-third of the territory and population of South Vietnam.[47] In that situation, besides his own political skills, Diệm had to trust in his relatives and the backing of his American supporters to overcome the obstacles and neutralize his opponents.[48]” Merge the first sentence with the last sentence of the paragraph before, something like “Additionally, around one-third of the territory and population of South Vietnam was under the control of the the Hòa Hảo and Cao Đài sectarian armies, who wanted positions in Diệm's cabinet and complete administrative control, and the Bình Xuyên, an organized crime syndicate that controlled the National Police led by Lê Văn Viễn, whose power was focused in Saigon.[46]” Also, remove “In that situation,”
  • ”Diệm had only expected 10,000 refugees, but by August, there were more than 200,000 waiting for evacuation from Hanoi and Hải Phòng.” Limk Hai Phong
  • ”Nevertheless, the migration helped to strengthen Diệm's political base of support. ” How?
  • ”The Diệm regime also provided them with food and shelter, farm tools, and housing materials. The government also dug irrigation canals, built dykes, and dredged swamp-lands to help stabilise their lives.[50]” Merge these sentences
  • ”In August 1954, Diệm also had to face the "Hinh crisis" when Nguyễn Văn Hinh launched a series of public attacks on Diệm, proclaiming that South Vietnam needed a "strong and popular" leader. Hinh also bragged that he was preparing a coup.” “Bragged” is not the right word to use here and merge sentences. Something like “Hinh launched a series of public attacks on Diem, proclaiming that South Vietnam needed a “strong and popular” leader, as well as threatening to coup.”
  • ”In August 1954, Diệm also had to face the "Hinh crisis" when Nguyễn Văn Hinh launched a series of public attacks on Diệm, proclaiming that South Vietnam needed a "strong and popular" leader. Hinh also bragged that he was preparing a coup. ” Don’t start sentences with “but”
  • The last paragraph of this section also needs transitions. It has the same bullet point structure as some others.
  • Link “National Bank of Vietnam”
  • Split the paragraph in two.

Presidency (1955–1963)[edit]

  • ” During the election, Diệm's brother Ngô Đình Nhu and the Cần Lao Party supplied Diệm's electoral base in organizing and supervising the elections, especially the propaganda campaign for destroying Bảo Đại's reputation.” Rephrase, something like “During the election, Diem, with the support of his brother Ngo Dinh angy and the Can Lao Party, used an avid propaganda campaign to destroy Bao Dai’s reputation and garner support for Diem.
  • ” On 26 October 1955, Diệm proclaimed the formation of the Republic of Vietnam, with himself as its first President, although only until 26 October 1956” change to “with himself as its first president until 26 October 1956.”
  • ”According to Taylor” who is Taylor?
  • ” According to Taylor, Diệm's rejection of the Geneva accords was a way of objecting to the French colonization of Vietnam. Diệm's disposition of Bảo Đại and the establishment of the First Republic of Vietnam was a way to claim Vietnamese independence from France.” merge sentences.
  • ” He modeled the Can Lao secret police's marching style and torture styles on Nazi designs.[70] Cẩn was put in charge of the former Imperial City of Huế.” merge sentences.
  • ”His youngest brother” “His oldest brother” who’s brothers?
  • " Luyen became a multimillionaire by speculating in piasters and pounds on the currency exchange using inside government information.[77]" move this sentence one period back, as the paragraph is broken up by " The Nhus amassed a fortune by running numbers and lottery rackets, manipulating currency and extorting money from Saigon businesses. "
  • Should personalism be capitalized? I think it is lower case based on other philosophies/ideologies (ex. democracy, communism, theology)
  • "Additionally, Diệm's government established many schools and universities, such as the National Technical Center at Phú Thọ in 1957, the University of Saigon (1956), the University of Hue (1957), and the University of Dalat (1957)." citation needed

Foreign policy[edit]

  • "For Japan, Diệm's regime established diplomatic relations for the recognition of war reparations, which led to a reparation agreement in 1959 with the amount of $49 million. " state how much $49 million is in today's money, and is this US dollars? specification needed
  • "Keith Taylor" specify who he is in first mention (i.e. historian, political scientist, etc.)

Coup and assassination[edit]

  • "The coup d'état was designed by a military revolutionary council including ARVN generals led by General Dương Văn Minh. Lieutenant Colonel Lucien Conein, a CIA officer, had become a liaison between the US Embassy and the generals, who were led by Trần Văn Đôn." merge these sentences.
  • "They obtained the support of Generals Tôn Thất Định, General Đỗ Cao Trí, General Nguyễn Khánh, the III, II Corps, and I Corps commanders. Only General Huỳnh Văn Cao of IV Corps remained loyal to Diệm.[164]" merge these sentences, maybe "They obtained the support of Generals Tôn Thất Định, General Đỗ Cao Trí, General Nguyễn Khánh, the III, II Corps, and I Corps commanders. however Huỳnh Văn Cao of IV Corps remained loyal to Diệm."

Honours[edit]

  • Move section after aftermath
  • Needs citations for verification


Aftermath[edit]

Legacy[edit]

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