Talk:Nicholas I of Montenegro/Archive 1

Archive 1

Nationality add

Please add in box right his nationality: Serb. Thanks77.105.49.89 (talk) 15:39, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Serbian Cyrillic

For a long time next to Никола Петровић stood Serbian Cyrillic. Who let anyone to change that to so called non existed Montenegrin Cyrillic? After all, in all speech of king Nikola he was mentioning Montenegrins are Serbs "Let go Montenegrins onto Bar, our Serbian Bar, onto Serbian sea"... "Montenegrins in the name of milk and Serbian bread"... etc... In the time of king Nikola so called Montenegrin language or Cyrillic existence was insane... so do not fake history and facts! Put back the Serbian Cyrillic. I am wondering, can some higher state institution start some proccess to autorized the articles, like this one, important for culture and history of Serbian people. Many fakings here. Unfortunately! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.240.211 (talk) 12:56, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Serb?

He declared himself as a Serb and Serbian Orthodox, but nothing in the text refers to the fact? Montenegrin_Serb

---cite where he ever declared he was a serb

In 1905 with the elections for the first Assembly, he said:

Разумио сам да је наша Скупштина ријешила назвати се Српско-црногорска народна скупштина. Ја противу тога немам ништа, али не знам што је посланике наше на то навело - да ли тврдња Пера Тодоровића [београдски политичар и новинар - прим. А.Р.] да смо ми Црногорци Арбанаси или да само Црногорска народна скупштина не импонује довољно свијету или се иначе правдамо тим да смо Срби поријеклом а Црногорци провинцијално. Ја не разумијем потребу која је нашу скупштину на то навела, али у начело ја се нећу томе противити, само што ће се то на више мјеста и начина толковати, за чем ја не одговарам, но само жалим. Већ када је скупштина себи дала ову титулу, што иста заборави мене с предлогом на владу да се и ја прозовем "Ми по милости божјој књаз и господар српско-црногорски", јер иначе, остајући на само "црногорски", излази некако да смо у несугласици Скупштина и ја, што у ствари, Богу хвала, нијесмо. Да је она боље извијештена, она би сигурно знала говори ли се Германско-баварска народна скупштина, Германско-саксонска народна скупштина, Германско-хесенска народна скупштина, Германско-баденска народна скупштина, итд. парламенат Англо-саксонски или Шведско-скандинавски итд. Јер кад су већ господа наши народни посланици хтјели и за добро нашли да поткријепе "црногорска" са "српско-црногорска", могли су исто тако истину рећи с називом европско-црногорска народна скупштина или Хришћанско-црногорска н[ародна] скупштина или још Поднебеско-црногорска народна скупштина. То су све непобитне истине као истина универзално позната да су Црногорци Срби. --PaxEquilibrium 15:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

He never says hes serb, stop playing games —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.173.160.43 (talk) 01:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

What games. Also, don't call me names, please. --PaxEquilibrium 20:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you blind? Do you see that in the text he literally said that MONTENEGRINS ARE SERBS, so HE SAID THAT HE IS SERB! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.93.179.251 (talk) 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

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Joy, I am not certain about the criminal codes but the Principality/Kingdom certainly did not have a free press that is certain. --Igor 10:19, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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should this not be put into page Nicholas I of Montenegro? - since this is intended to be written in English. 213.243.157.114 02:31, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Date of exile

The article says that he went to exile in 1918. Wasn't this already in January 1916, after failing to achieve separate peace-treaty with Austria-Hungary? --romanm (talk) 19:03, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No, he was dethroned officially by the Podgorica Assembly in 1918. --HolyRomanEmperor 13:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

POV?

This article has a neutrality-disputed tag, but nothing on this discussion page indicates what the dispute concerns. Could this be clarified, or the tag removed from the article?--Iacobus 00:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Death date

I changed his death date from March 2 to March 1 because the New York Times article "Montenegrin King Is Dead in France" is dated March 2 but begins "Antibes, France, March 1. -- King Nicholas of Montenegro died here today." Biruitorul 01:05, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Insane

Nikola Smolenski, please stop with the edit war and bring conversation here so that we can discuss this through, in a civil manner.

Are you going to claim that Nicholas I of Montenegro was not a Montenegrin? This is almost as insane as that which is User:Critika1 doing over at House of Crnojević and House of Balšić. --PaxEquilibrium 15:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Nicholas I of Montenegro was not of Montenegrin nationality. Nicholas I was Serb by nationality, and one of greatest Serb rulers ever. If you know of any evidence to the contrary, do show it. Nikola 15:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Even according to the book of Vlahovic: The Montenegrins have always felt as Serbs and as Montenegrins. If they said they were Montenegrins, it did not mean that they were not Serbs. They felt as Serbs regardless of the issue. Chiefs, rulers, folk singers, writers, journalists, scientists, men of the world, peasants, they all declared themselves as Serbs. In fact, it was recorded so in the documents and laws of the Montenegrin state[45] and even in the address by Njegos in which he pleaded to "...the skies above Montenegro to clear, the lightnings and thunders to go away, and safeguard the entire Serbian people from destruction, all of them from the Danube to the blue sea." That is the reason why one should be on guard against "home evil" personified in some Montenegrin publishers of Njegos' short poems.

Are you going to ask me for evidence that Nicholas was a Montenegrin? --PaxEquilibrium 15:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, I asked for evidence the Nicholas was a Montenegrin by nationality. Perhaps a compromise which would acknowledge Vlahovic could be to say that he was Montenegrin Serb? Nikola 16:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No. To understand why, see Talk:Marko Miljanov. It would seem (to a person who knows nothing on the subject) that Nicholas was a member of the Serbian national minority in Montenegro; the same would be with "Serb from Montenegro", an erroneous expression.

Do you know the meaning of the word "nationality"? That's not necessarely ethnicity. For example, yes we all know that Petar II Petrovic-Njegos had considered himself a Serb - but what did say in his passport? What was written under "Nationality"? "Montenegrin", and not "Serb". --PaxEquilibrium 00:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to ask you a similar question: why is Slobodan Milosevic noted in the article as a Serb? Why as a Serb? Is there a single explanation why should('ve) we considered him a Serb? --PaxEquilibrium 00:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Because everyone else does? The word "nationality", in the context of this template, does mean exactly "ethnicity". If it wouldn't, then there would be absolutely no point in having it, as we know which country the ler ruled, thus that is his citizenship. Nikola 04:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see know now => however, tell me, what makes Slobodan Milosevic a Serb? --PaxEquilibrium 16:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well he's a Montenegrin, isn't he? ;) Nikola 08:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Just answer the question, please. --PaxEquilibrium 12:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, actually. It appears that he was never specific about the issue, all available evidence points to the fact that he was Serb, plus he is commonly considered to be one. Nikola 19:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Slobodan's just as Montenegrin as Napolean was Corsican or Hitler was Austrian, Nikola was Montenegrin and only that —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.173.160.43 (talk) 01:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Indeed. So does everything point that Nicholas I was Montenegrin, plus he is commonly considered to be one. --PaxEquilibrium 20:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

May I just make one point about Milosevic being a Serb, how could he be ethnically Serb when his own brother, his own flesh and blood, considers himself Montenegrin by nationality and by ethnicity? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CrnaGora (talk • contribs) 19:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

If you are from Montenegro, you should know that there are often cases of two brothers who self-identify differently. I agree that one of them has to be wrong then... Nikola 17:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

But, Nicholas I self-identified as Serb ;) Nikola 17:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

However Nikola, Nicholas I considered himself a Montenegrin too. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 22:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

By nationality? Nikola 23:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

The term "by nationality" is highly controversial. I'd also dare you to prove that he ever considered himself a Serb by nationality. --PaxEquilibrium 22:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

For example, there's this letter[1] to Aleksandar Obrenovic where he says Боже сачувај да то буде - несреће не би било веће за нас Србе од те! - "God forbid if that will happen - there wouldn't be a bigger misfortune for us Serbs than that one!". Since he didn't live in Serbia, when he wrote "us Serbs" he didn't mean "us Serbians". Then another letter[2] to Petar Karadjordjevic where he says двије независне српске земље и два српска владалачка дома - "two independent Serbian lands and two Serbian ruling houses" - which weren't both in Serbia, so if he said that his family is "Serbian", I say that he meant by nationality. Then there is even this song he wrote, There, over there, where he says "my Emperor", thinking of Tsar Dusan, who wasn't Montenegrin. And so on. Nikola 20:42, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The Nemanjics were Docleans, yeah.

...and I still see nowhere your Serb "by nationality"... get my point now? :) --PaxEquilibrium 10:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The Nemanjics originate from Rascia! In montenegrin code of law from 1914. (Time of Knjaz Nikola) it is written that there is no Montenegrin nationality, that that is citizentship term and that all Montenegrins are Serbs by Nationality, so if Nicolas was Montenegrin by place of birth he is Serb by Nationality! If you want the proof of that just go to en. wikipedia and type "Demographic history of Montenegro". Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.93.179.251 (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

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He was always speaking about Montenegro as just a Serb land... don't forget famous quotes like "Let go Montenegrins onto Bar, onto our Serb Bar onto Serb sea" "Ajmo Crnogorci, na Bar, na nas srpski Bar, na srpsko more"

or

"Montenegrins, in the name of bread and a Serbian milk" "Crnogorci tako vam hljeba i srpskog mlijeka" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.92.242.53 (talk) 10:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Grb petrovic njegosa.jpg

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BetacommandBot 23:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Nationalist bias

Far too much Serb and Albanian nationalism in this article. Can we try to have a balanced and NEUTRAL encyclopaedic text please? Time to move on from 1389 I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.126.127 (talk) 04:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Despotism natural to Montenegro?

"His system of government, which may be described as a benevolent despotism, was perhaps that best suited to the character of his subjects."

Doesn't this passage strike anyone as odd? 91.47.206.30 (talk) 14:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not just this passage. The entire article reads like a nationalist, royalist screed. 209.104.242.178 (talk) 14:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Style

It is perhaps worth of noting that while his official style was indeed "Your Majesty" for official purposes, that he was never addressed as such in Montenegro itself, where the people simply addressed him with "Master". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.140.150.100 (talk) 22:55, 6 April 2020 (UTC)