Talk:Nisaea

Nisaea was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (June 24, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nisaea/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Llywrch (talk · contribs) 13:56, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starting review. -- llywrch (talk) 13:56, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

llywrch writes

I admit that I've been slacking about writing this up. While I tend to be exacting in my reviews, I also try to pick articles that I feel are either passes or close to passing the GA criteria. It's no fun for anyone to tell the submitter all of their work was in vain. But I feel this article just misses the mark, & may require more work to bring it up than you may want to do at one sitting.

At first glance, this would appear to be a GA. It is well organized, has sufficient citations -- you deserve praise for including both primary & secondary sources, & use the primary sources appropriately -- is stable, neutral in presentation, & has numerous illustrations. But as I looked more closely at the article, I found some serious faults.

First was the map at the top: except for showing the Long Walls connecting Nisaea to Megara, there is little that is useful about it. What would be a better choice would be to clip out a section of File:Map of Boeotia, Attica, and Phocis.jpg, that shows not only all of the territory of the city-state Megara (which helps orient the reader where Nisaea is in Greece, unlike the present map), but include the island of Salamis & perhaps even the city of Athens. Seeing these last two details helps explain to the reader why there was a constant tug-of-war between Megara & Athens for Nisaea: on the one hand, Megara needed it to support her cross-isthmus trade, & without it her business was crippled; on the other, holding it Megara threatened Athens' hold on Salamis (which that city had taken from Megara), & if Megara held Salamis this position threatened both Eleusis & Piraeus. Conflict over Nisaea -- one of the themes in the history of this port -- was dictated by geography.

Next was that this article depends on too few secondary sources. I have no doubt these are the latest & likely best sources on Nisaea, but that there are only three -- all from the same issue of the same publication -- gives the unintended impression that this article was not sufficiently researched. FWIW, when I preformed a quick research on Nisaea, I found 3 articles off the bat thru JSTOR clearly about the town. In addition, one looks to be worth incorporating in this article: A.J. Beattie, "Nisaea and Minoa" Rheinisches Museum für Philologie, Neue Folge, 103 (1960), pp. 21-43. (You can obtain a copy of the article here.)

Another point concerns the earliest historical mention of Nisaea -- at least I assume that was the reason you mention Peisistratos capturing the port in 561 BC; there is no further explanation for this event. Above this, there is an account from the legendary foundation of the town, & how allegedly Nisaea applied to the entire area, which when it came to be known as Megara the older name came to apply only to this portion. Raphael Sealey, A History of the Greek City States: 700-338 BC (Berkeley: University of California, 1976), p. 123 explains Peisistratos' motivation for capturing Nisaea: it was a step in his struggle to attain control (or become a Tyrant) over Athens. It is clear that as late as the first half of the sixth century despite its superior resources, Athens did not have conclusive control over Salamis; Peisistratos sought to gain glory in aiding his community's annexation of the island, which he then used to support his recruiting a group of armed supporters (under the excuse he needed a bodyguard) with which he seized the Acropolis.

Back to this topic. I am surprised there is no archaeological survey of the area: I have this impression that practically every square meter of Greece has been studied by archeologists, who have recorded the presence of every archeological site, if not conducted excavations there. I'm very likely wrong about that, but it would be fitting if there is no archeological investigation of the Southern coast of Megara, that lack of information is noted.

I admit there is nothing I have mentioned that can't be fixed. And if you are willing to work on these, I'm willing to help you. Please let me know what you would like to do. -- llywrch (talk) 06:25, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Status query[edit]

llywrch, the nominator Gardneca hasn't edited on Wikipedia since April 16, over six weeks ago. Under the circumstances, should Gardneca not respond to this ping in the next week or so, it may be best to close the nomination. The article can always be renominated once the issues you've raised have been addressed. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:15, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No word from nominator, closing without prejudice. -- llywrch (talk) 20:20, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2019 and 15 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mandafur. Peer reviewers: Thegodofchaos.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]