Talk:Non-German cooperation with Nazis during World War II

Accuracy

Hello. I disputed the accuracy of this article is because of various reasons. For example, the people that are mentioned here as nazi collaborators has very non-Baltic surnames, they doesn't score even a single hit on google (Antanas Impuljavichjus); some people are mentioned with different surnames at different places (Klimaitis / Klimajtis). The reason why I renamed article is because "Baltic collaborators" is an incorrect name, as it implies that only the Balts will be talked about (Latvians and Lithuanians) and not Estonians, and as well in the Baltic States those who have worked for the Soviets are frequently called collaborators as well, so there is an ambiguity. The reason why I removed the number of Jews massacred is because that included not just the ones killed by the collaborators, but ones killed by German forces as well; and only ones killed in the ninth fort of Kaunas it seems. This article is about the collaborators, so it should stay about them. Some other information is also doubtful, but what I said is enough for now. I hope people who knows the World War 2 history better will come here. Also, the Latvian Legion and the controversy over its status in modern Latvia might also be noted here. Burann 18:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

For russian-speaking readers the book "Damned solgiers" of Chuev S. is good reference. In this book all data about collaborators were collected precisely. For english-speaking readers there is a scattered information about collaborators on different sites basically devoted to the Holocaust... p.s. About surnames. Name Jonas Klimaitis is correct. Arajs is correct. Rudolf Bangerskis is correct. Karlis Mangulis is correct. I have found these names in Internet by Google. Antanas Impuljavichjus is in book only. Possibly this name is written on Lithuanian a little differently. Ben-Velvel 02:10, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I have explained some things in your talk page. I hope my advices will be helpful. Burann 11:20, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

It is doubtful to me that a pogrom against Jews happened in June 26th; to my knowledge, the ethnically-based mass killings started later in this area. At that particular time (immidietly after the German military occupation of the area), most of the actions were aimed against the soldiers of Red Army, some of whom were still left in the area, and the people who were officials during the Soviet rule. This is as well confirmed by the link you gave, which clearly states that sniper activities and such are the main problems for the nazis. Burann 23:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

http://www.holocaustrevealed.org/_domain/holocaustrevealed.org/lithuania/lithuanian_history.htm, http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1941/june_26_1941_99945.html, http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Lida-District/winwer15.htm about Pogrom of 25/26 June 1941 in Kaunas Ben-Velvel 00:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I have expanded this article to include information about all the collaborators. I can't believe there haven't been yet any articles about the collaborators on Wikipedia (only about the persecution of them, but not about the collaboration), and as the collaboration was similar in many nazi-occupied countries, a single article will be good. I will post links to this article from talk pages of World War II and Holocaust so that knowledgable people could expand this article. Kaiser 747 09:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Look at Resistance during World War II - it's quite incredible how much focus resistance gets compared to collaboration. That is systemic bias at its best. I think a good source for material for this article will be the various Freikorps - there must be some numbers regarding the amount of volunteers from each country - I think there were some 1200 from Denmark. The Swizz banks would also be interresting - I know they traded heavily with the Nazi regime and there was a scandal some years ago regarding the assets of deceased Jews. Maybe I'm having a brain fart but I seem to remember Argentina was actually pro-German during the war...? Celcius 06:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Article move

I have moved Non-German cooperation with Nazis during World War 2 to Collaboration during World War II to better conform with its opposite equivalent Resistance during World War II (and because it is more elegant). I did this a bit prematurely and I apologise – I should have initiated a discussion and/or poll about it first. Feel free to move the article back again if there is consesus that it was a bad move. I do maintain though that this name is better but it is of course a matter for debate and consensus. Celcius 05:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I moved it back, because under the new name the article would as well have to take into account the collaboration with other powers that expanded during World War II - Soviet Union, Japan, Italy - in the occupied lands. Those are quite different topics and probably should get their own articles instead of mixing everything into one. As well, when moving you haven't corrected all the redirects, thus many double redirects were created. I think the existing name for the article is good. I have changed World War 2 into World War II however. Alcatel 10:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC). Alcatel 10:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know but I realized it was probably a mistake to move it and decided to wait untill I heard what you people thought of it. Anyway, it's fair enough and I won't contest it. I'll summarize the contents of this article in the other one and try to find information regarding Soviet and Japanes occupations. Celcius 17:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Could be

This article could become a good and useful source of information, with work. As it stands, there is a lot of propaganda and misinformation being bantered around. Dr. Dan 13:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

This Article Needs To Be Expanded

One example: 'Cooperation with Nazis existed in various places in Russia.' So? This article seriously needs to be expanded. As I am not an expert on this topic, I would like to invite others to do so. Rick86 21:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I expanded that some, more expansion is needed however.

Latvian Legion

• Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Latvia: The Volunteer SS Division in Latvia - interesting reading

The Conclusions of the Estonian International Commission for the Investigation of Crimes Against Humanity may also be useful here. heqs 12:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Poland/Lithuania

You call Wilno Uprising "colaboration with Nazis againts Soviets"? Are you crazy?

Serbian Collaboration

It is well known and documented that Serbian Chetniks, under the leadership of Draža Mihailović, collaborated with nazi forces on a few occasions. This certainly qualifies as "non-German" collaboration, does it not? Mihovil 03:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Total number of troops

What is the total number of troops recruited from Non-German countries? Could a number for each country also be added? Inge 13:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

British Channel Islands and other matters

The British Channel Islands have been omitted from this list, though they provide an interesting insight into how British people might have responded to Nazi occupation on a larger scale. In both the main islands of Jersey and Guernsey there was a high degree of official collaboration, along much the same lines as Vichy France.

My general reaction to this whole article is one of puzzlement, not being entirely sure what it is attempting to achieve. The whole thing is horribly unbalanced, with far too much on, for example, Latvia and Lithuania, and not nearly enough on France, surely the main example of 'co-operation' in all of occupied Europe. White Guard 23:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Yarillstremenog issue

Hi all, mainly admins. I'm asking you to see, what that guy is doing in this article. After failing to proceed with false and artificial article Ukrainian-German collaboration during World War II, when he presented a lot of mendacious facts, without providing valid sources. One anti-ukrainian in english wikipedia had made ugly many articles on history of Ukraine. That's improper! Let historians edit that article, not russin imperialist (he is well known author in ru wikipedia).

So, I insist on validation on EVERY edit by that strange user, and validation of every source, he provides.

Example. In his recent edits, he added "Bauer, Yehuda: The Holocaust in its European Context p.14. Accessed January 14, 2006." in context, that Ukrainians were enthusiast in exterminating Jews. But when I read that article, it comes that facts was misinterpreted by editor. Citation (page 13-14):

"The Soviet Union liberated the world from the threat of another long period of the darkest ages imaginable. This is the perception of recent history prevalent all over Europe, indeed the world, and it determines Western historical memory. It is true even in, say, the Ukraine, where the Germans were originally enthusiastically welcomed by most people, though even there there was an important though unquantifiable pro-Soviet minority as early as 1941. Ukrainians in large numbers participated in the murder of the Jews, volunteered for pro-German police, collaborated with the German administration – but soon deep disenchantment took over. The Germans did not permit any kind of Ukrainian autonomy, treated Ukrainians as lesser beings, and then deported hundreds of thousands of them as forced laborers. The mood changed rapidly. Also, the fact that large numbers of Ukrainians were serving in the Red Army made their relatives under German rule tend more and more towards the Soviets. When the choice was between rule by Germans or by Ukrainian communists, the majority of Ukrainians in the end chose the Soviets. The Red Army was welcomed as liberators, except in Volhynia and parts of Eastern Galicia, where the armed anti-Soviet OUN underground maintained a foothold until about 1950."

So, I ask you to block that user from editing articles on Ukrainian history. His activity is improper in misinterpreting information on Ukraine, Ukrainians and Ukrainian history. If no, the only thing, Ukrainian community will do is to start another edit war with those imperialists. So, to prevent that madness I ask for Your help. Thanks.

--Galkovsky 08:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there any specific edit by that user that you're disputing? Beit Or 09:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[1]

This information was confirmed to be not valid, or misinterpreted, by admins, while resolving Ukrainian-German collaboration during World War II issue. --Galkovsky 09:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Admins won't block a user because you don't like his edits. See WP:DR perhaps William M. Connolley 09:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I wonder, if you are independent in this question. If you are familiar with arguments provided to protect and merge article Ukrainian-German collaboration during World War II, you should understand, that user provides false information, without sources, or misinterpreting existing sources. I think, this AGAINST wikipedia rules and it seems, that source confuses admins and they can't see direct violation of wikipedia rules. But if they will read supplied sources... I insist that you'll turn to this dangerous activity and stop this. Also, don't forget you have to be independent. Any sympathies or smthng like that can't be allowed here.

for example, what you'll say on provided citation and user's interpretation of it? --Galkovsky 09:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

See this comment: [2] --Galkovsky 09:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The edit seems to be well-supported by the sources. I can see no evidence of misinterpretation. Beit Or 15:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It was proved to be false. Provide _valid_ source which states about Ukrainian women. --Galkovsky 16:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not keep this discussion confined to Talk:Ukrainian-German collaboration during World War II?--Carabinieri 17:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

mentioned user continued to insert false information after protecting Ukrainian-German collaboration during World War II. That's a global issue over most articles on history of Ukraine. So please answer. --Galkovsky 19:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Serbia

What about the Chetniks? --HanzoHattori 12:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Poland

Some partisan units even openly collaborated with the Germans - the mentioned unit run away to the West and liberated a number of prisoners. Is this collaboration?Xx236 14:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)