Talk:Norman Douglas

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Untitled[edit]

On his crime, Douglas wrote: "Norman Douglas of Capri, and of Naples and Florence, was formerly of England, which he fled during the war to avoid persecution for kissing a boy and giving him some cakes and a shilling." Furthermore, "sexual assault" is a modern term (certainly in the context of seducing a willing boy), anachronistic as used here. Do we have information about the exact charges against him? Haiduc 09:59, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This will come from [1]. Which doesn't answer the question. Charles Matthews 10:36, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest we change it to "sexual improprieties" until we can verify the nature of the indictment. By the way, here http://douglas.thefreebookshop.com/ the age of the boy (16) is indicated. Haiduc 11:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The context is that the police at that time would lay on the charges, heavily, set bail, and assume that the person charged would leave the country. That is, it was a heavy-handed way of cautioning people. It might be inaccurate to tone that down therefore. There was no age of consent involved. Charles Matthews 11:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Should not be toned down, simply phrased in contemporary terms. Age is not an issue, just adds more detail. However, the fact that age was not of the essence further underlines the fact that the term "sexual assault" is a modern projection. Haiduc 12:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

According to [2] which is a verifiable source, the charge was 'indecent assault'. Charles Matthews 12:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Great! So how about we change the text to reflect the charge verbatim, and add the age of the boy and Norman's comment on the event: "Norman Douglas of Capri, and of Naples and Florence, was formerly of England, which he fled during the war to avoid persecution for kissing a boy and giving him some cakes and a shilling." Haiduc 22:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the page. Charles Matthews 09:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've added in the age, for greater clarity. Haiduc 09:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Douglas was, according to biographers, definitely bisexual, but what is a 'bisexual scandal' (as said in the article around 1894)? Should that be rephrased? http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/ 16:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re the comment way up above, the boy wasn't willing - he reported ND to the police. On the other hand, very little seems to have happened - ND, as he says, seduced him with cakes and lemonade, and tried to kiss him (or succeeded in doing so); a second meeting was arranged, and to ND's surprise the police were invited. And how about a mention of ND's travel writing - he was one of the leading travel writers of his generation. PiCo 09:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

edited to reflect the above--Smerus 09:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work. Andrew Dalby 12:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Father and Grandfather[edit]

.. have an article in the German-language Wikipedia--Stephanie Do (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New book[edit]

A new biography of Douglas has been published by University of Chicago Press: Unspeakable: A Life Beyond Sexual Morality, in case anyone interested in this article wants to read it and see if anything needs to be added to the article. Schazjmd (talk) 00:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Expatriate[edit]

It appears Douglas was a British national born abroad, that is how he can be an expatriate where he was born.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what expatriate means though. His parents were expatriates in Austria, he wasn't. If they (or he) had remained their whole life there, would you still consider him an expatriate? Are all second-generation migrants expatriates? That's not a meaning supported by our article Expatriate nor any dictionary, it seems. Fram (talk) 16:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Although he was born abroad, and spent the majority of his life out of Britain, Douglas’ legal citizenship was British, and he always considered himself to be so. 81.103.69.155 (talk) 13:36, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]