Talk:Northern Levant

Redirect to "Levant": not an ideal solution

We have a substantial article on Southern Levant, there should be at least a stub on Northern Levant as well. Anyone? Arminden (talk) 01:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Cutting and pasting from another article, when virtually the entire content of the new article is contained in the old one is pointless. And the fact it was done without proper attribution is against WP guidelines (WP:COPYWITHIN). Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Onel5969:. "Restore redirect - covered in target"?! Twice wrong, if I may. First, I've put a LOT of work and serious consideration into this, reverting it w/o the minimal respect of discussing it here is not OK, to put it mildly. Did you follow my latest more general edits in this area and the various discussions to see what it's based on? It wouldn't sem so. But more importantly, it's factually wrong. For the exact same reason why we have a Southern Levant article, and quite a large one, we need a Northern Levant article as well. More editors are interested in Israel/Palestine and biblical archaeology, that's the pragmatic reason why more work has been done on that topic, but Northern Levant, i.e. the largest part of Syria proper, is in terms of archaeology (at least?) as interesting. This as a stub will most certainly be expanded, by others for sure, maybe by you and me too. Finally, the previous target does by no means cover the subject. Levant is not a good article yet, the definitions there are far from sharp and user-friendly. For all I know, Southern Levant and Northern Levant are set terms used mainly (or is it exclusively?) in archaeology, and there's plenty to add here, but also to learn from other, specialised editors, once they contribute here. I arrived here because I couldn't find anywhere clear definitions for: Levant, Northern Levant, Southern Levant, Greater Syria/Syria (region), Syro-Palestine, Syria-Palestine, in relation to biblical archaeology/Levantine archaeology. An endless list of terms which are covering closely related, if not identical topics. It's a HUGE quagmire. Even The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant (OHAL), a great source and apparently a hyper-RS for the topic, is self-contradictory in the introductory part: Suriano writes on p. 9, as one of his missteps, that

"The term 'Levant', as used here, covers an area that is often referred to in archaeological works by other terms, most notably Syria-Palestine and North Syria."

Levant = ONLY North Syria??!! Not! Killebrew AND himself define it everywhere else as all of Greater Syria.

And ths is only one small detail, the mess is humongous, with unsharp or outright misleading terminilogy and definitions thrown around all over the place. So no, we need MORE explicit clarity here, certainly not less. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 11:57, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

That's what stubs are for, along with red links. More is certain to come. The archaeology of Syria! How well are you familiarised with the topic? If it were only to expand with what ISIS and the civil war has destroyed, it's likely to become an oversized article. Short mentions of the term in muddy articles like Levant are between useless and counterproductive. Arminden (talk) 12:02, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

SE boundaries? Golan, Hauran?

The Litani (probably just its E-W section) is indicated as the southern boundary. The problem is: this says little about the SE boundary. Is southern Syria all part of the Southern Levant? So the Golan Heights and all of the Hauran? I guess yes, but a source would be welcome. Arminden (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Done. Talking to myself :)) Arminden (talk) 22:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

... or not done. Maurice Sartre, while ripping apart Paolo CIMADOMO's The Southern Levant During the First Centuries of Roman Rule (64 BCE-135 CE): Interweaving Local Cultures, writes on p. 2:

"Today, the regions in question are simply called Galilee, Beqaa, Jawlan and Hauran and they represent only a very small portion of the “Southern Levant.”"

I have no problem with Galilee, Golan and Hauran, but Beqaa?! That far north of the line drawn by the E-W section of the Litani? I cannot quote it as RS. Arminden (talk) 23:53, 24 February 2022 (UTC)