Talk:Ohio Northern University/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Disputed

It would seem that an editor of this article has a low opinion of Ohio Northern University. The facts in question have been kept, but should be substantiated by some source, as the person offering those facts has offered some POV commentary. SwissCelt 00:02, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

The fact is: (and check the respective school websites for verification) The University of Dayton School of Law tuition for the first year is (including fees) $30,600 while Ohio Northern University College of Law tuition for the first year is $23,795. These numbers are accurate for the 2005-2006 academic year. Obviously, ONU is not the most expensive. I have no numbers to substantiate or disprove the bar passage rates.

I figured as much. I'm editing the page to remove some of these POV (and frankly, ridiculous) claims. -- SwissCelt 03:03, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Information Is Accurate

Concerning tuition, University of Dayton charges per credit hour rather then a yearly tuition. The $30,600.00 tuition mentioned above is the estimated cost for a full time 1st year student at Dayton in 2005. However, the estimated tuition for a third year student at Dayton is $16,398.

Regarding the bar passage rate, ONU had a 19% bar passage rate for the February 2004 Ohio bar exam. While this number varies, ONU consistently has one of the worst bar passage rates in Ohio. See the Ohio Bar Examination Law School Tabulations for additional information at http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/admissions/asp/default.asp.

Fuzzy Math

The ONU Tuition of $23,795 multiplied by 3 years equals $71,385 and not $83,385. According to the websites mentioned above the third year of law school at Dayton is not $16,398, but $24,597. The $16,398 is for a student that completes school in 5 semesters instead of the traditional 6 semesters. The tuition costs are still lower at ONU, not to mention the cost of living in Ada, OH being much less than Dayton, OH.

According to the website above for bar passage rates: Capital University in Columbus, OH and University of Dayton had lower passage rates at the February 2005 Bar Exam. Please the column for percent of all takers. For first time takers, ONU was lower than Capital and Dayton, even though Capital and Dayton still leave much to be desired with their bar passage rates. Please note that these rates are for the Ohio Bar only and do not include passage rates of graduates taking the bar in other states.

Tundra

Ada, Ohio does not even get snow from April until October (on average), so I'm not sure how anyone can justify "snow covered condition of the grounds" as anything but a satirical jab... which, as it turns out, is how I labelled it in an edit that was undone for no apparent reason. NPOV, people: Learn it, love it, use it. -- SwissCelt 03:03, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

It is mainly for the fact that the "Tundra" has a low number of trees, especially big ones, (even more since the Great 2005 Ice Storm) and therefore no windblocks. The flat terrain and setup of the buildings on both sides of the Tundra are perfect for driving wind, making walking to class in the winter very undesirable. --Buckeye1921 01:00, 23 February 2006

While that may be (and trust me, as a former BGSU student I know the feeling all too well), calling Ada a tundra is not factually correct. I'm willing to leave that claim in-- I'm sure someone has said it about Ada at some point, and it's probably even printed somewhere-- but we have to face it for what it is: Satire. -- SwissCelt 06:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The term "Tundra" isn't calling Ada a tundra, it is the term used to refer to the center of campus by most if not EVERYBODY associated with the University, students and faculty alike. When they used it they werent jabbing at the college, it's the actual term used when referring to the center of campus. -ONUStudent

Well and good, but I know no place in Hardin County that is covered in snow right now. So either we call it satire, or we remove the bit about "generally barren and snow-covered state" altogether. -- SwissCelt 03:12, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

To whomever keeps deleting the talk page....

Cut it out. Please. That's not how things work on Wikipedia. If you think that the comments on the current talk page serve no useful purpose, move them to an archive page instead of just deleting them. Deleting the comments makes it look like you're trying to censor someone. -- SwissCelt 03:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Latin Motto

I added the Latin motto and the translation usually given by ONU's administrators, but have heard that their translation might be an oversimplification. Is anyone a Latin scholar, and able to give a more accurate translation? Aidendavis 02:09, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Motto

In terms of the motto, "ex" in latin may be translated "out of" or "from" So "Out of diversity, strength" or even "Strength from diversity" (I'm not a latin expert, but I have some experience, having studied ancient Greek.)

I think the motto came about because of the enormous variety of programs for a school this size. When I was an undergrad there, there were around 2200 students, yet they have five colleges. (Arts & Sciences, Law, Pharmacy, Business, and Engineering.)

Agreed. My read of the motto is "From diversity, strength" or, more fluently, "From [our] diversity [comes our] strength." And yes, I understand the motto stems from the diverse offering of programs, particularly on the graduate level. (Before anyone accuses me of homerism for my apparent and continued defense of ONU, let me just state that I'm familiar with the university only because my wife grew up near it, and frankly I wouldn't want to attend that institution. "Tundra" is a fitting tongue-in-cheek description of Ada, if not an entirely accurate one.) -- SwissCelt 04:51, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Bar Passage Rates

In terms of the bar pass rates, percentages at Ohio Northern can be very misleading. The bar pass rates are only for Ohio bar takers. A majority of ONU law students take the bar in other states. Since the law program is small anyway, you end up with a very small number of students taking the Ohio bar - enough that one person's result might change the school pass percentage drastically.

The results for July 2005, for example are as follows (from http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/admissions/asp/default.asp ):

25 took the exam for the first time. 21 passed. 84% passed. (Overall rate 70%)

The "normal" pass rates are >60% and usually right in the middle of the pack for Ohio law schools.

The 19% pass rate quoted above was for *6* test takers taking it in February, which is a also a more common time for non-traditional students to take the bar. One single person more passing the bar would raise the rate to 33%. Hardly comparable on a percentage basis.

At any rate, that's my rant. I can't stand seeing statistics abused. Valder 17:40, 04 December 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, but the discussion here originated by way of disputing the following claim, formerly in the article:
The Law School has the lowest bar passage rate and the hightest tution of the nine Ohio law schools.
This claim is unsubstantiated, and (judging by the context) was likely a POV claim by an editor disgruntled with the university. Simply put, it didn't belong in the article. -- SwissCelt 04:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

On top of the 21/25 who passed the bar during the July 2005 exam, ONU was 5/6 for the February 2006 Ohio Bar Exam.

The bars in Ada

Forget about bar passage rates... let's talk a minute about the other kind of bar passages in Ada: Places serving alcoholic beverages. The Regal Beagle is not the only bar in Ada, nor does Jon & Toni's complete the list. There's also Little Mexico, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Bullwinkle's Bar & Grill in nearby Dola. Then again, I'm related to Bullwinkle, so I'm not really allowed to mention his establishment in the article space itself. ;-) -- SwissCelt 01:04, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

-To be fair, there is currently five (5) bar's in Ada, Ohio. I graduated two weeks ago, and as of that time the bars were as follows: 1. the Reagle Beagle; 2. Little Mexico; 3. The Armory Bar & Grille; 4. Jon & Toni's; and 5. The Owlsburg Lounge. The Reagle Beagle from what I understand has been a mainstay, as it has been in the town for years. Known as the "college bar" dispite its small and generally unkept appearance, along with a weekly kereoke night. The bar serves specials' daily, and its owner, known as "Pops" is a quasi-town-star. He has been interviewed by major newspapers (incl. Cleveland Plain Dealer) during the week of the Superbowl (mainly due to the proximity of the Wilson Football Factory). Little Mexico has opened, closed, and re-opened just a few years back, and is known for great mexican food. The Armory was just opened in 2005, and has a beautiful bar. It is known for having many "theme" nights (jello wrestling, fear factor, etc.). Jon & Toni's has also been around the town for quite some time, and is generally a hang out for those who reside in Ada, and not necessarily as common for the students. Finally, to be fair, the Owlsburg may be technically just north of city limits, and is a bottle-only bar (no liquor) generally reserved for those traveling (incl. truckers) across Ohio State Route 30. --Popki4 20:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

Now that this article is a part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio, I've added it to the cleanup list. This article could be so much more than it is now; moreover, there are some problems with sources and encyclopedic tone as the article is currently written. -- SwissCelt 02:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there could be "much more" to this page, but have to disagree that it belongs in the cleanup list. It's similar in size, style, and references to pages for other small colleges in Ohio. For instance, check out Cedarville University's page, which isn't on the cleanup list. What would you like to see added before the cleanup tag is removed? Steve8675309 21:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Schools

I have begun the process of adding much more extensive information about ONU. As a current student, I would really like to see this article improved. I would appreciate help with the NPOV, since this could become a problem. I hope to add the remaining sections specified in the WikiProject Schools in the next couple weeks. Any help would be appreciated. Leave a comment here and we can split up the tasks or something.

I removed the stub tag and changed some of the things (specifically the "tundra" description) that I have seen being discussed here. Also, I removed the words "liberal arts" from the description, since the school has both L.A. and professional programs. What is the best way to deal with this difference? Greg Back 05:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

You're off to a great start! I would say either putting the word "comprehensive" in as a description, or using the word "university" instead of "college" (as you did), implies the difference. Great job! -- SwissCelt 13:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that is great that you are attempting to to add to the history of ONU. As a two-time graduate, the history of the University should be highlighted. It's sad that so many people have had so much negative to say. 70.187.78.130 00:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)Popki4

Infobox University

I have applied this template to the article, using the information found in the hardcoded table. Below is the information that needs to be included in the article, as there is no room in the infobox. (This is kind of a storage place for me until I get time to add things to the article)

Tuition: Arts & Sciences, Business: $28,050; Engineering: $29,970; Pharmacy: $31,545 -- Is this relevant information? Where should I put it?
Athletics: NCAA Division III - 21 varsity teams -- I will incorporate this into the Athletics section

I'm not sure what to do about the Latin motto. There was a "free label" to include whatever information I thought necessary; this is what I chose. Comments/suggestions? Also, if anyone has a logo they could find/upload for the infobox that would be great, otherwise I will look for one. Greg Back 23:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Greg. The tuition numbers are correct for the 2006-2007 school year. Room and board are not included with those tuition prices.

Swing by the admissions office and pick up some current information - I think a scholarship sheet, viewbook, catalog, and various fact sheets could help you out in your quest to update the Wiki page. :)

--admissions counselor at ONU--

Law school

We cannot accept material cut & paste from other websites for a few reasons:

It is copyrighted and owned by Ohio Northern University. Posting it here (without obtaining proper permissions) would constitute a copyright violation.
The text is written in an unencyclopedic manner, with a very "glowing" review of the law school. It reads a bit like an advertisement to me. Wikipedia must adhere to a neutral point of view, which means it may be okay to draw some facts from the law school website but we require a variety of reliable sources like newspaper articles or other good sources. --Aude (talk) 20:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Aude

I will do some research and gather some new information to post.

Thanks, K-colwell 21:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the Law School tab anyway, because I do not think they are deserving of a separate and distinct entry. If the law school receives such an entry, then all the various educational departments at ONU should have their own entries - i.e. pharmacy, engineering, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rarefly45 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Post moved to talk for source verification

Beginning in the 2006-07 academic year the university instituted a printing policy, whereby each student was allocated $30.00 to use throughout the year. The cost of printing one page is four cents, which is subtracted according to what is printed. This has caused a large uproar within the student community, as the decision to institute a limit on printing was done swiftly and in total secret, with very little input being received from the student body. Thus, a student is faced with a critical choice: bear the additional financial burden of printing over the $30.00 (in excess of an already prohibitively expensive education at a private university), or refuse to print in excess of the $30.00 minimum and have his or her academics suffer accordingly.^{[verification needed]}

While this is true, it's hardly useful information for an ONU Wiki entry. --hza

I would tend to disagree with that statement "hza." I think the printing policy is highly pertinent to the direction in which the university is moving. In other words, ONU is on the downward slope, getting cruddier and cruddier, taking more away from students than they are giving them in return. Rarefly45 14:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, this is true. Secondly, in my opinion, it is a good idea. Rarefly45, you are correct, it is pertinent to the direction in which the University is moving. However, it's not in a downward slope, but rather a university that focuses on saving paper, toner, and energy. Trying to conserve resources does not make a university cruddy, but rather respectable. Finally, I have never encountered a student who used all $30 of their allotment. --Major optics (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I added information about the printing policy under Environmental Efforts in an unbiased manner. --Major optics (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The first house built specifically for fraternity in Ohio use was built by Ohio Alpha chapter of Sigma Phi Epsilon Fraternity. The chapter currently still resides in the house.^{[citation needed]}

This was under the Trivia section and doesn't really belong in any area. --Major optics (talk) 21:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Dog Earns B.S. in Canine Companionship

Yeah it's true. A golden retriever earned it at ONU. Word is this is the first degree ever awarded to an animal. I wasn't sure if this was true so I didn't add it to the article, please do if you can verify it's validity. -Sidewinder 17:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is true. I am currently a student there and did not hear much about this. There was a dog named Zeeke that was trained as a capstone project by one of the seniors, however, and the university administration seemed to enjoy that dog, so I wouldn't doubt if this is fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.141.15.116 (talk) 14:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's true and has been documented with a verifiable reference. --Major optics (talk) 20:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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Alumni cleanup

I cleaned up the notable alumni page as some names were out of order. It is now in alphabetical by last name, if there are any objections to doing it this way can we discuss it here before changing it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.141.15.116 (talk) 14:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I think this is for the better. --Major optics (talk) 20:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)