Talk:Olli Harder

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A fact from Olli Harder appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 November 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that New Zealand association football coach Olli Harder has worked in the US, China, Norway and England?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Olli Harder.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 12:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that New Zealand association football coach Olli Harder is the current manager of English team West Ham United Women? Source: Appointment: [1]
- ALT1: ... that New Zealand association football coach Olli Harder has worked in the US, China, Norway and England? Source: [2] (chosen to use England rather than UK as the national teams split to England, Scotland etc)

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Susan Bernal

Moved to mainspace by Joseph2302 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:02, 25 October 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Article new enough and just long enough, well-referenced all around. Hook verifiable at source (doesn't technically include England in the sentence, but that's kind of obvious). Earwig found no copyvio, and QPQ is done. Good to go - with ALT1. Original hook is kind of mundane. Juxlos (talk) 05:25, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Content[edit]

The purpose of the lead is to summarise the article, and so removing all but one of the teams he's managed does not adequately summarise the article, whereas the longer version complies with MOS:LEADLENGTH. Also, Seany91, how is listing the teams and places that he's worked at all promotional/soapboxy? It's all well sourced factual information, and removing chunks of it and then adding citation needed tags (after you've removed the citations) is not helpful. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:48, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I made substantial edits to improve the article by summarizing and deleting fluff, which Joseph2302 reverted and misconstrued as removal of content. There seems to be several issues Joseph2302 is objecting to, so let's look at them one by one:
First, Joseph2302 objected to deleting one sentence from the lede. I don't have strong feelings either way; removed it originally as it either duplicates information in infobox (Klepp IL) or includes information considered not notable enough for the infobox (so why would you have it in the lede, where it is supposed to summarize the most important information about the subject?). Joseph2302's stance seems to be that because the article has a certain length, the lede must be of a certain length even if it contains fluff or non-notable information, which seems misguided especially considering that MOS:LEADLENGTH is "a general guideline - not absolute rule." But whatever, no strong feelings there.
Second, I summarized non-notable information and removed fluff from the career section. Note that in my edit, I did not remove essential information about the subject's career (i.e., that he had coached in these specific countries), but rather summarized them. Do we really think having coached Wilton Blue Under-11s, for example, is notable? That's akin to an inexperienced person stuffing their CV with short internships to make themselves look more notable and experienced on paper, i.e., WP:SOAP.
Finally, I removed New Zealand from the opening sentence because the subject has dual nationalities (New Zealand and Germany). Since the subject never appeared for a senior international team, on WP there's long-standing consensus that we omit nationality and avoid any hyphenated nationality adjective in the opening sentence in lede. Note that I did not dispute that for tables, lists, etc., where a flag icon is used, the New Zealand flag should be used based on FIFA nationality rules.
At the end of the day, style can be subjective and I see that Joseph2302, despite reverting twice, has now made small changes here and there to address some of the issues I brought up, which is how collaborative editing on WP is supposed to go (though I could've done without the mass complaints). I do feel that Joseph2302 mischaracterized my edits, perhaps in part due to their feeling of WP:OWN of this article, but again - whatever, no harm done. Seany91 (talk) 13:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I completely disagree with this edit, there is literally no benefit to it? You have completely misunderstood SOAP. Giant Snowman 20:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm in agreement with Joseph and Snowman, I think you are misinterpreting SOAP and the information was fine as it was.— NZFC^(talk)^(cont) 22:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]