Talk:Out of the Woods/GA1

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 08:50, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will start reviewing this today or tomorrow, depending on how occupied I am with my job during the day. --K. Peake 08:50, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead[edit]

  • Recording date is unsourced
  • "Taylor Swift, taken from her fifth studio album 1989." → "Taylor Swift from her fifth studio album, 1989 (2014)."
  • "Swift was inspired by" → "For the song, Swift was inspired by"
  • "Co-written and co-produced by" → "Written and produced by both" because "co-produced" makes it sound like the two were the co-producers
  • ""Out of the Woods" is a" → "it is a"
  • "song featuring heavy" → "song that features heavy"
  • "for 1989 on October 14, 2014, by" → "for the album on October 14, 2014, through"
  • Why "through"? HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because using "by" here would be make the lead too repetitive, as that is used for the other release here where it is most appropriate. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • Target single to Single (music)
  • "when Republic Records in partnership with Big Machine released it to US radio stations." → "being released to US radio stations by Republic Records in partnership with Big Machine."
  • "Prior to this release," → "Prior to the release,"
  • "This release" is more specific, HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We all know what this means, HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, but it is fine to wikilink terms such as this where doing so provides more context and isn't considered overly obvious like wikilinking Canada. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, if you look through articles, the majority of them do not link those terms but do link music video. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention info about the video's synopsis
  • Not necessary for a video that did not receive a lot of coverage, HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Isn't it notable to mention what happens in the video since those details are important to readers? --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • Isn't "America" enough to indicate that it is in the US? HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, as readers may be misguided into believeing this is in reference to North, Central or South America, never mind the country of the US. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "the top 20 on charts of" → "the top 20 of charts in"
  • Target certifications to Music recording certification
  • Why have you not mentioned any live performance(s) in the lead?
  • Not necessary; two-para lead is enough imo, HĐ (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is correct, but can't you add a sentence mentioning a live performance or two at the end of the lead
  • checkY

Background and production[edit]

  • "of her previous albums and incorporate a" → "of her previous releases and incorporate"
  • I don't get the big deal of changing "albums" to "releases", HĐ (talk) 12:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "her fifth studio album," → "her fifth studio album"
  • "Swift's headlining world tour in support of her fourth studio album Red." → "Swift's the Red Tour in support of her fourth studio album Red (2012)."
  • "who co-produced two songs" → "who contributed production to two songs"
  • That's needlessly wordy, HĐ (talk) 12:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is being more specific because otherwise readers may think he co-produced the songs. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you mean? He did produce the songs. HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I mean they may have been misguided into thinking his role was as a co-producer, not a producer; I can see you have fixed the wording appropriately now. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink bonus track per MOS:LINK2SECT
  • "to create a " big" → "to create a "big"
  • "voice memo containing the lyrics" → "voice memo containing them" with the target
  • "The song was the first time" → "The song marked the first time"
  • "Antonoff spoke of this working experience with Swift:" → "Antonoff spoke of his experience working with Swift:"
  • "The final product of" → "The final version of"
  • "was written and produced by" → "was written and produced by both"
  • To specify that the two wrote and produced it, rather than leading some readers into being confused about the credits being respective or not. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "by Laura Sisk assisted" → "by Laura Sisk, assisted"
  • "and Sam Holland assisted" → "and Sam Holland, assisted"

Music and lyrics[edit]

  • Audio sample should be aligned to the left because the article's media should be on different sides each time it is present
  • There is no concrete rule for this, HĐ (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • All of the appropriate refs should be added to the sample's text
  • Write out about the synthesizers in the prose too
  • "Critics describe "Out of the Woods" as"→ "Critics described "Out of the Woods" as"
  • "song with a prominent" → "song, with prominent"
  • "A production" is correct, HĐ (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "considers it an" → "considered it an"
  • "by the rock band" → "by rock band"
  • "repeats the lyric," → "repeats the line"
  • "albeit with a slim chance." → "despite a slim chance."
  • They have the same meaning, HĐ (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • [18] does not source that she sings the lyrics on the second verse
  • "she and her lover had done:" → "she and her lover had made:"
  • Wikilink snowmobile
  • "accident that requires one" → "accident that required one"
  • This is talking about the song's lyrics, HĐ (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It says the lyrics were inspired by real-life though, plus Swift sings about remembering the incident? --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was inspired by the accident, but in the song there is no clear narrative (she remembers the accident, but we can't be sure if the surgery is at present or in the past). I wouldn't use past tense for the lyrics in this case, HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Swift told that the lyrics" → "Swift explained that the lyrics"
  • "The snowmobile accident in the bridge was" → "The snowmobile accident was"
  • Target to Tabloid journalism should be on tabloid journalists instead

Release[edit]

  • I don't think you can speak to a radio program, HĐ (talk) 13:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this as it is then; I just thought the radio program introduction was unnecessary at first but it is fine. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Swift announced on Good Morning America" → "Swift announced on GMA"
  • Wikilink music video
  • "broadcast on December 31, 2015." → "broadcast on December 31."
  • Target single to Single (music)
  • "Republic Records in partnership with Big Machine released" → "Republic Records, in partnership with Big Machine, released"
  • [29] should be at the end of the sentence before [30] because it is not coming after any form of punctuation where invoking a ref is appropriate
  • "to Italian radio on" → "to Italian radio stations on"

Critical and reception[edit]

  • Retitle to Reception because this has a para that consists fully of sources that provide rankings
  • They are part of the critical reception, HĐ (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is true, but it should be retitled to reception to separate these from reviews because there is no accolades or a similar sub-section here. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I mean the lists are from critical sources too; wouldn't "Reception" also has to cover commercial reception? HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No it does not, as there are two paras for commercial info so that can be its own section and reception is often used as a title in this context. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "received positive reviews from music critics." → "was met with positive reviews from music critics." with the target
  • "its lyrics describing a troubled relationship proved that" → "its lyrics that describe a troubled relationship prove"
  • The latter is more clunky with two "that"s
  • Maybe implement the above change but switch the start to "Lipshutz noted while" since that doesn't read clunkily? --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "well-known country sound showing" → "well-known country sound for showing"
  • "Mikael Wood writing for the Los Angeles Times deemed" → "Mikael Wood, writing for the Los Angeles Times, deemed"
  • "Annie Galvin called it" → "Annie Galvin called the track"
  • Wikilink love song
  • Remove target on new wave
  • "climatic ending: "they" → "climatic ending, writing that "they"
  • "for 2014's Best Breakdown."" → "for 2014's Best Breakdown"." per MOS:QWQ
  • Best Breakdown is not (originally) in quote marks, HĐ (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know, but that is part of the quote from Pitchfork and the full-stop should be outside of the speech marks. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No I mean "Best Breakdown" is not in quote marks, as in the link you cited. HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was quoting directly from this article, meaning that the speech marks were the end of my quoting as well as the end of the quote cited. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "NME writer Hannah Mylrea placed" → Mylrea placed"
  • Rewrote her full name so that readers don't get confused, HĐ (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is only two sections later so is not needed; however, I noticed you misspelt here surname in the music and lyrics section which needs fixing. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "for its "anthemic," → "for the "anthemic,"
  • "feeling that the production overwhelms" → "feeling that it overwhelms"
  • Reworded because "it" may be misleading, HĐ (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial performance[edit]

  • This section should be in-between the Music video and Live performances and covers sections
  • This is the order that things regularly go in for album articles. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No stiff rule for that; plus wouldn't it be synced with the lead's flow? HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is fine, I guess. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""Out of the Woods" debuted on the" → ""Out of the Woods" entered the"
  • "which later became its peak position." → "which was its peak position."
  • "It debuted atop the Billboard Digital Songs, a chart focusing on digital sales," → "The song debuted atop the Billboard Digital Songs chart,"
  • "her eight number-one chart entry." → "her eighth number one entry."
  • "number one" is a noun, HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The eighth part still needs fixing though and remove the word chart. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "The song was" → "The song was ultimately"
  • superfluous word; we can do fine without it, HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make it sound like the song was certified platinum at the same time as its re-entry, though. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are not the same sentence and we can also see no direct link between them, HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for selling over 1,000,000 units." → "for selling 1,000,000 units in the US."
  • Ditto with the "America" thing, HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • See earlier comment. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "The single was a number-one hit" → "The song was a number one hit"
  • Ditto. It's either "a number one" or "a number-one hit", HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change single to song either way. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • Can't seem to load the Israel chart position from the archive, or is my laptop just slow?
  • I'll try to get some archiveurls, HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "within the top ten on record charts in" → "within the top 10 of record charts in" per MOS:NUM
  • [43] should be solely at the end of the sentence before [44] per earlier comment
  • No rule for this, HĐ (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is definitely a lot smoother/less clunky. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You still need to fix he name of the chart and change "it" to "the song". --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "despite failing to chart." → "despite failing to chart in the country."

Music video[edit]

  • "It premiered on" → "It premiered via"
  • Uses of "on" too use to each other. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think "via" is correct in meaning, HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I changed this to something similar myself, as "on" is used too close otherwise. --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fix the rest, though. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • "interpreting the title literally." → "interpreting the song's title literally."
  • "with the caption" → "with the caption,"
  • "chased by a" → "being chased by a"
  • "as she struggles to escape as animate roots" → "as Swift struggles to escape while animate roots"
  • "At the end of the video, the woods disappear as she finds" → "At the end of the music video, the woods disappear while Swift finds"
  • "in the booklet of the 1989 album." → "in the booklet of 1989."
  • Why is the vast majority of the synopsis para not sourced by [28]?
  • What do you mean? HĐ (talk) 13:13, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The para about the synopsis is not provided when I click on the sole ref invoked in it. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Trimmed and added source so that it can be retrieved from sources, HĐ (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the subject of the song" → "the subject of "Out of the Woods""
  • Because it has been too long since you mentioned the song's title. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • But I wouldn't like to see two quotation marks next to each other... HĐ (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "commented on the video's message: "this serves" → "commented that its message "serves"
  • "one in particular."" → "one in particular"."

Live performances and covers[edit]

  • "performed "Out of the Woods" on" → "performed "Out of the Woods" for"
  • See earlier comment. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • She didn't perform it for the show... HĐ (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have reworded this for you to stop the overusage of "on". --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The name of the sessions should not be in speech marks
  • Wikilink Yahoo!
  • "She then performed it on Good Morning America," → "Swift performed the song for GMA"
  • Nova 96.9 should not be italicised
  • "Rolling Stone praised the" → "John Blistein from Rolling Stone praised the"
  • "as the opening act" → "as the opening number"
  • "a tour she launched in" → a tour Swift launched in"
  • Target acoustic to Acoustic music
  • "on the shows" → "at the shows"
  • Remove target on rock
  • "said that Adams's cover" → "said that the cover version"

Credits and personnel[edit]

  • Recording and mixing locations should be listed at the top
  • Please see [1] and re-write everything accordingly
  • Make sure to use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel
  • Wikilink Taylor Swift

Charts[edit]

  • As I said earlier, the Israel chart position doesn't seem to show up from the archive for me?

Certifications[edit]

  • Good

See also[edit]

  • Good

References[edit]

  • The only quote is from NPR which is okay, HĐ (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No it is not with the overquoting, and copyvio is still too high for Billboard. --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY
  • Make sure all of these are archived by using the tool
  • I am not too sure about the reliability of ref 2 per WP:RSP, or is it reliable due to being published by the Recording Academy?
  • Yes, it is from the Recording Academy so it is fine, HĐ (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:OVERLINK of Billboard on refs 8, 24, 25, 32, 40, 48, 59 and 65
  • WP:OVERLINK of USA Today on ref 11
  • WP:OVERLINK of Rolling Stone on refs 12, 21, 37, 51 and 62
  • Sydney Morning Herald → The Sydney Morning Herald on ref 16
  • MTV → MTV News on refs 23 and 27
  • radioairplay.fm → Radio Airplay SSL on ref 31
  • WP:OVERLINK of New York on ref 36
  • Ref 39 needs to be filled in with Billboard
  • I have already commented about ref 42, but how about replacing with a different archive if it's not only me who the archive doesn't work for?
  • Cite Stuff.co.nz as publisher instead for ref 49 and target to Stuff (website)
  • Ref 50 is a duplicate of ref 28
  • Cite Elle for ref 52 with the target
  • WP:OVERLINK of MTV News on refs 56 and 60
  • WP:OVERLINK of Time on refs 57 and 63
  • WP:OVERLINK of The Hollywood Reporter on ref 58
  • MOS:CAPS issues with refs 61 and 81
  • WP:OVERLINK of Slant Magazine on ref 66
  • WP:OVERLINK of The A.V. Club on ref 68

External links[edit]

  • Isn't the song on MetroLyrics to add to the links?
  • No, there was a consensus that it violates copyright and thus has been avoided (I forgot where the link to the consensus is, though), HĐ (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good

Final comments and verdict[edit]

  •  On hold following me completing my second review for you; good luck with fixing the issues soon! --K. Peake 09:29, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have resolved all except where I responded above. Thank you for the comments, HĐ (talk) 13:25, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • HĐ I have replied where anything needs fixing and crossed out useless changes suggested, good luck! --K. Peake 14:37, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Responded :) HĐ (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • HĐ ✓ Pass after you implemented changes stronger and I completed some moderate copy editing! --K. Peake 07:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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