Talk:Overdetermination

Philosophy: Analytic / Continental Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Analytic philosophy
	Continental philosophy

Psychology

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

down to earth[edit]

I am not in a position to add or correct this entry; as it stands is wholly obscure and probably useless to those who don't already know what "overdetermination" is. A down-to-earth rewrite would be in order. Ben.

I likewise think that this article is fairly "obscure" (although I wouldn't go quite so far as to call it "wholly obscure") and in serious need of revision. I think part of the article's obscurity results from the fact that each of the sections says virutally nothing about what overdetermination is in that section's specific context; the only exception is the section on Althusser, which still needs much more expansion and development. To be honest, the concept--if it can even be referred to as one concept--of overdetermination probably deserves separate articles concerning its use in Freud, Althusser, Baudrillard, etc. Job L 06:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs to be revised to include an analytic philosophical meaning of overdetermination. Dialogic 14:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware that the concept had a use in analytic philosophy, but if it indeed does, then I wholly concur with Dialogic. Job L 16:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- The section on Baudrillard needs to be expanded by a specialist on the subject. The article says he draws on Althusser but breaks with him in important ways, but doesn't say how he breaks with him or what his new definition of 'overdetermination' is. Zorba the Geek (talk) 22:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The section on Baudrillard might as well be removed, as per above. The portion on Althusser after the quotation from "Reading Capital" is almost impossible to understand due to its terrible grammar: "instances that are more really, slight, understandable" is gibberish, and the "[concealed/unaccepted]" part is alien because I have no idea how to interpret brackets in this, as well as the fact that one could interpret concealed as either a verb or an adjective here. -Phette23 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phette23 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I come from a mathematics background. In mathematics, over-determination is a relatively straightforward concept. Specifically, assume something that is described by a set of equations, each with several variables. Over-determination just means that two or more equations say the same thing, so that a specific point solution can't be found. As a simple example, consider the tow equations:

2x + 2y = 4 4x + 4y = 8

Although there are two equations in two unknowns, no specific point values for x and y can be determined, because one equation is proportional to the other: one of the equations is superfluous; the "system of equations" is "over-determined.

I suspect what this means in the field of psychology is that two or more statements about reality are equivalent: one is a scaled version of the other. PictouGene, 1 September 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by PictouGene (talk • contribs) 12:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC) __________ "Thus, for Althusser's reiterating of Marxist thought, overdetermination is what [concealed/unaccepted] "determinant contradictions", or capital-economic incongruities (i.e., abstract labour resulting in "isolation" -- the class struggle), which are analogous to Freud's "potent thoughts", apply to instances that are more really, slight, understandable." <-- This is the worst sentence in the history of language. The person who wrote it should be shot.[reply]

I deleted the sentence. No need to shoot anyone. Bhny (talk) 03:10, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

??[edit]

An instance of a popular riot calling for revolution could exemplify overdetermination. The event has to it, in capitalist culture, an over-application (determination) of agitation. The determinant contradictions (the reasons for popular revolt) are not addressed and so their great mass is "displaced" onto the singular event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.68.252 (talk) 07:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Überdeterminierung/Überbestimmung[edit]

The parenthesis on Freud says he uses "Überdeterminierung" where we translate overdetermination. It's been a while since I read Freud auf Deutsch, but I'm pretty sure he says "Überbestimmung" more often than -determinierung... no? Any Freudians with a copy of the Gesammelte Werke in PDF who can do a quick search?