Talk:Paul Moriarty (rugby)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus for move. Rugby as a disambiguator does its job of directing people to the article they are looking for and not to some other person sharing the name X. Whether that person plays both rugby union and rugby league will be gleaned by looking at the article itself but is detail that does not add to clarification that the person looked for by name is the right person by that name, which is the point of such disambiguators. As I know next to nothing about Rugby am a good test case: dual code means nothing to me, as it will to the majority of people, so its use in the title is just a source of confusion except to aficionados.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

• Looking through, he played league as well, isn't the move giving undue credence to his time spent playing union.Londo06 15:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion copied in from User talk:Jeff79

NB, I see that in the past two days Keith Jarrett (rugby footballer) and John Bentley (rugby footballer) have been moved without discussion to Keith Jarrett (rugby dual code) and John Bentley (rugby dual code). Xn4 (talk) 01:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the same goes for John Devereux (rugby), but it was stated that that was done as a test edit, which I thought was fair enough. Then the two guys pushing for the change claimed a ficticious consensus at this and this discussion and went about moving the others.--Jeff79 (talk) 03:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion copied in from User talk:Anthony Appleyard

• Hi. I just noticed you moving some rugby players articles with the suffix "(rugby)" to "(rugby dual code)", I'm assuming at the request of an editor whose opinion is not agreed to by other members of wikipedia projects on rugby league and rugby union. If I could just ask you to stop for now until an agreement is reached on the wikiproject discussion pages for the two rugbys. Thanks.--Jeff79 (talk) 12:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
• See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requested_moves&oldid=232483063 for the requests to move these pages. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:41, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
• User:Londo06 has tried it again: see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requested_moves&oldid=232640098 . Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• Thank you. Is that going to go ahead? What can be done about it? You can see for yourself here and here that the move is not uncontroversial (as well as being poorly justified).--Jeff79 (talk) 09:47, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• I have moved Londo06's requests to Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Incomplete and contested proposals. I have not obeyed them. I have left a message in . Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• It seems there is an overiding majority from different parties and at both communities that the version offered by Jeff79 is insufficient, as per the arguments set out at both communities.  CorleoneSerpicoMontana  20:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion copied from User talk:Londo06

• About your repeated request to move some rugby players articles with the suffix "(rugby)" to "(rugby dual code)": please note that this move is NOT decided and settled. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Entry copied from: Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Incomplete_and_contested_proposals

• Paul Moriarty (rugby) → Paul Moriarty (dual code rugby) — (Discuss) — As before, slight tweak on the rename per request. — Londo06 05:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• David Watkins (rugby) → David Watkins (dual code rugby) — (Discuss) — As before, slight tweak on the rename per request. — Londo06 05:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• Andrew Walker (rugby) → Andrew Walker (dual code rugby) — (Discuss) — As before, slight tweak on the rename per request. — Londo06 05:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Queried: see User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Rugby players. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
    • This is all hocus-pocus. The {{move|NewName}} template wasn't added to the three Talk pages, nor were the Requested move sections created there until I did it, there were no 'Discuss' links above until I added them just now, and in any event the three pages have already been moved, apparently prompting an edit war, which is just what this Wikipedia:Requested moves procedure is intended to avoid. Best thing is for whoever closes this request to decide what to do and then to prevent further moves. Xn4 (talk) 01:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
      • NB, I see that in the past two days Keith Jarrett (rugby footballer) and John Bentley (rugby footballer) have been moved without discussion to Keith Jarrett (rugby dual code) and John Bentley (rugby dual code). Xn4 (talk) 01:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion continued

• Oppose: I see no need for "dual code". The qualification to Paul Moriarty (that is, what's inside the brackets) isn't intended to describe the subject's whole career accurately, just to be enough to separate him from another man called Paul Moriarty. Also, the standard format is 'Paul Moriarty (politician)' or 'Paul Moriarty (architect)'; so in this case it should be Paul Moriarty (rugby footballer). Xn4 (talk) 21:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: "(rugby)" without "footballer" is best as there are several coaches who were players and players who later become coaches, so it was decided that just listing the sport is most appropriate along with being more succinct anyway.--Jeff79 (talk) 01:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: Jeff79 is very active in our rugby pages, and if they have a consensus there for John Smith (rugby), then it clearly makes more sense than John Smith (dual code rugby). Xn4 (talk) 01:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: Could someone please refactor this page so it is the current discussion and previous material are properly delineated? It is not clear at all where a newcomer to the discussion should place their comments - it's a mess. As for the move - blindingly obvious oppose; we choose the most simple name that is unambiguous. The current name is unambiguous, the proposed name is less simple; that's that. Knepflerle (talk) 16:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
  • And I'm in favour of other similar recent moves to the unnecessarily long version to be moved back to the simple (rugby) dab too. Knepflerle (talk) 16:29, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
• Support: The guy played in two rugby league world cups and his title only describes him as a 15 a-side player.  CorleoneSerpicoMontana  06:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

No it does not. The title describes him as a player of a rugby code without specifying any particular one. Knepflerle (talk) 16:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Much like Scrum (rugby), Penalty (rugby), Field goal (rugby), Offside (rugby), etc. --Jeff79 (talk) 02:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

• Support: the dual code in the title, not bothered which way round as other version to most is only referring to rugby union.Londo06 22:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Really? Not in my experience. Prove it. Knepflerle (talk) 23:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hot air

What a lot of hot air. Improve the article, give him an infobox, expand on his career (either code, pick your favourite). Whilst the article is in the pathetic state it's in, who cares about the disambiguator. -Sticks66 15:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)