Talk:Pavle, Serbian Patriarch

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Inappropriate redirection[edit]

I do not know how to fix this, as it relates to a non-existing article, or an article I cannot access (since it redirects here automatically), but the article for Serbian given name Pavle should NOT redirect to the page about the late Patriarch Pavle.

Pavle is a common Serbian name corresponding to English Paul; it is exclusively Serbian (Croatian is Pavao, Bosnian Moslems aka Bosniaques, being Moslem, have no names of Christian origin, and Bulgarian is Pavel) and it was held, among others, by the physicist Pavle Savić who worked with Irène Joliot-Curie and was the president of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts, as well as by possibly the most prolific Serbian painter of late 19t early 20th century, Pavle "Paja" Jovanović et al.

It is therefore totally unacceptable that a common name redirects to a single specific person.

BTW, if someone would kindly explain in detail/step-by-step how to fix this kind of error (for similar problems in the future), I'd appreciate it. Ta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annabelleigh (talk • contribs) 23:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Oops, I forgot to sign: Annabelleigh; 22.11.2009; 0:21 CET)

Copy-paste of a Vreme article[edit]

On the 17th of October 2009, 85% of this article is a copy-poorly translate-paste version of an article by Vreme, a Serbian variant of anti-clerical Guardian, by NO MEANS WHATSOEVER a neutral source.

Moreover, this translation even omits the authentic reference from "Vreme" at Patriarch Pavle's reference to the New Testament about a REPENTANT CRIMINAL being dear to god in reference to Raznatovic Arkan, making it sound as if the Patriarch welcomed Arkan's silly blabber out of vanity or Alzheimer, which is clearly NOT the case.

This article requires a MAJOR clean up and PROPER referencing on BOTH anti-clerical/Serbophobic AND pro-clerical/Serbophile sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.65.194.11 (talk) 22:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: this article is taken verbatim from http://www.serbianorthodoxchurch.com/pages/s/pavle/biography-en.html I have therefore marked it as such, as it is plagiarism.Yahnatan 18:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article states "In his tenure as the patriarch ... he has made efforts to heal the current schism in Macedonia with the uncanonical Macedonian Orthodox Church". How can this article use the term 'heal' and then call the Macedonian Orthodox Church 'uncanonical'. --Daniel tanevski 14:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have fixed that. Thanks for pointing it out :). The Patriarch himself does not view the church uncannocial and has refused to recoginze it because of the touchy issue of the name Macedonia, which Greece forbids Macedonian Slavs from using.

--Happyman22 18:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename[edit]

This article is named very oddly. Standard English would be more like "Patriarch Pavle of Serbia". I propose it be thusly renamed. Comment? TCC (talk) (contribs) 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

13:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)Patriarch of Serbia is his full title in Serbian. The patriarchs in the orthodox churches have almost total autonomy over their countries (Unlike catholic cardinals, being subdued to Vatican for example - the universal patriarch of the O.C. traditionally has much less influence.) and therefore being a Patriarch of Serbia is considered a title in it's wholeness (Imagine saying: "Emperor Ceasar of Rome", "Ceaser, Emperor of Rome" would be more appropriate, the first form being more appropriate for nobles or royalty, making them equal to other nobless or royalty of the same rank.)

"Controversy"[edit]

The following was sourced from a book written by a man with an axe to grind.[1] James B. Lyon is controversial commentator at best, as a quick glance at his blog will show.--Methodius 02:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

With reference to the above comment, I used Google Books to look up the referenced pages in the book "Serbia since 1989" and none were written by a "man with an axe to grind." In fact, they were written by a woman, Sabrina P. Ramet, who is also the book's editor. They appear in two chapters, "Under the Holy Lime Tree," beginning on p. 125, and "The Politics of the Serbian Orthodox Church," beginning on p. 255. From reading the referenced passages in the book, the citations below appear to be correct. The edition on Google Books does not even list an entry by James B. Lyon (though he is discussed in an early chapter). However, one Amazon page (ISBN-10: 0295986506, 2006) does list him as a "Contributor" -- though another (ISBN-10: 0295985380, 2005) does not. Whether these are different editions or this is a bibliographic error, I can't determine with my present resources. In any case, the above comment on the cited passages seems substantively incorrect. Clocke (talk) 22:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

Sources are not valid[edit]

^ Serbia since 1989 pg 258 ^ Serbia since 1989 pgs 135 & 258 ^ Serbia Milosevic; Portrait of a Tyrant pg 212 ^ Serbia under Milosevic; Politics in the 1990s pg 238 ^ Serbia since 1989 pg 259 ^ Serbia since 1989 pg 258 ^ Milosevic and Markovic pg 11 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Babic (talk • contribs) 15:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please say why they are not valid thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.205.73.61 (talk) 17:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

All other patriarch are named in this style: Patriarch [name] of [church]. I think this article should be renamed in order to match the style of the similar articles. See: Patriarch Maxim of Bulgaria, Patriarch Kirill I of Moscow, etc.

Common name[edit]

He is the only known Patriarch Pavle. According to Google books, "Patriarch Pavle" (352) is the most common name, notably higher than "Patriarch Pavle of Serbia" (47) and "Serbian Patriarch Pavle" (101). "Patriarch Pavle" is common name, as seen by Independent and NY Times. His title included "... Serb(ian) Patriarch", and not "of Serbia".--Zoupan 02:24, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Fantasy title ! "Patriarch of Serbia" ?[edit]

This is ridiculous and in the same time outrageous : we are in the year 2016, all of internet is at our disposal and still we are using fantasy titles that never existed! Heads of Serbian Orthodox Church are Serbian Patriarchs, not "Patriarchs of Serbia" ! Such title never existed in history and it does not exist now. No one was ever called "Патријарх Србије" (Patriarch of Serbia). The title is: Патријарх српски (Serbian Patriarch): Патриарх (noun - Patriarch) and српски (adjective - Serbian). Just look at the Google Books for so-called title "Патријарх Србије" : 9 (nine) hits :) Ridiculous !!! And real title: Патријарх српски - 3260 hits !!! This page should have title: "Serbian Patriarch Pavle" because he was "Serbian Patriarch" and not "Patriarch of Serbia". Same goes for other Serbian Patriarchs. Please, go to official web page of Serbian Orthodox Church in English: there you have an official translation of the Constitutional Charter of SOC, look at the article 11 that defines the title of the patriarch as: "Archbishop of Pech, Metropolitan of Belgrade and Karlovac, and Serbian Patriarch" !!! (http://www.spc.rs/eng/church) I rest my case. Sorabino (talk) 23:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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