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Possible proposed split[edit]

Would it be at all possible to split the "Fossil genera" section from the rest of the article? Specific types of prehistoric penguins have their own separate articles, and it would make sense to tie them back into a separate article. The biggest problem of making a separate article would be that both articles would become considerably short. You could fix this by having some information the same on both articles. 64.124.38.140 (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This discussion is closed. It has been agreed upon to keep the collage, to add boarders around the images and not use a single animal. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should penguins be represented by one image or a collage in the lead?

Penguins are not complicated folks. This image is a high quality picture of a black-and-white bipedal bird in a polar/marine background. That is a good enough representation of penguins for the lead. Not every group needs a collage. We've got the rest of the article to show their diversity. I personally think there should be a wider discussion on when collages are needed. They tend to make it harder to focus on one image. LittleJerry (talk) 01:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to point out that in all but one of the images in the collage, the picture cuts off at the chest or torso. We don't even get a good look at the form of the penguin. The emperor in particular looks terribly cropped. LittleJerry (talk) 02:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure a Chinstrap is the best penguin to use. I think most people think of Emperor or King Penguins first. Otherwise, I do support replacing the current image. Ships & Space(Edits) 10:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Giving my two cents, I Support the collage being included in the lead. One high quality image won't fully represent the difference in the group, especially appearance. The featured picture you support as the replacement isn't well known by non-biologists. Showing group colleges doesn't imply that all penguins in said group look like that. WILD MOUSE what? 02:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"isn't well known by non-biologist" I don't understand. LittleJerry (talk) 02:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe they're referring to the "John Q citizen" you mentioned. - FlightTime (open channel) 04:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i meant what exactly isn't known to a non-biologist. LittleJerry (talk) 05:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest that you would be surprised at how few people would immediately recognize that the animal in the picture you provide is a penguin at all, and I think this is also what was meant by WildMouse above. Obligatory xkcd. I do not especially have an opinion one way or the other whether a collage or single image is used, but this should not be the sole lead image in my opinion. Tollens (talk) 05:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what makes it difficult to tell it's a penguin? LittleJerry (talk) 05:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should perhaps clarify that I was brought here by the feedback request service and know practically nothing about birds of any sort. When I think of a penguin, I think almost exclusively of the kinds of images that come up if you do a google image search for "penguin". Looking at the differences I can see between the penguin in your suggested image and the ones I more easily recognize, the neck shape (or perhaps just the pose) is probably the biggest thing that would throw me off. Tollens (talk) 06:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support collage in lead. waddie96 ★ (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Collage to show diversity, though it would be okay to just have four images instead of six. Reywas92Talk 13:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I do agree that the current collage is a bit visually distracting. At the same time, I think that the Penguin's appearance varies widely enough that the use of a collage may be warranted as an illustrative aid. That said, perhaps there is a way to address the problem itself? The Bird article also has a collage, but I find it slightly less distracting. That makes me wonder if it's because of the white borders between the images. Maybe introducing that to this article's collage could help. spintheer (talk) 04:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If we are going to have a collage them it should at least be displayed it like dog, rodent or snake. LittleJerry (talk) 14:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That will work for me. In essence, the boarders is the key. - FlightTime (open channel) 14:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As long as a collage is used for taxa with varying appearances, I'll be fine. WILD MOUSE what? 14:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, those look even better! spintheer (talk) 14:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Prefer collage because the chinstrap may not be as well-known by readers. Senorangel (talk) 01:58, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As long as it is recognizable as a penguin, the species shouldn't matter. But the discussion is over whether we should use one image or a collage generally. LittleJerry (talk) 17:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Penguins seem to be quite diverse in their appearances. Can one species be representative even if it is recognizable? I still think some readers may not be able to recognize the chinstrap. Senorangel (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Collage A variety of images is more helpful for a group rather than an image of a single penguin, even if the single image is technically higher quality. For an animal group, diversity is helpful to show, even if the differences were slight (which they're not). Unnamed anon (talk) 04:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "even if the differences were slight" you lost me there. slight differences should not be given undue weight over a legible image. LittleJerry (talk) 17:20, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I believe the opposite. Wikipedia is not the place to get extremely high definition photos. I think it's more valuable to show the differences between different species in a group than putting undue weight onto one species. If differences were slight, that's all the more reason because a side-by-side makes it easier to compare. And in this case, the differences are not slight, but decently noticeable. Unnamed anon (talk) 18:49, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Showing slight differences in the lead is absurd. It's more important to have an image that the average person can focus on and diversity is only important if it is significant. We have an entire article for more images you know. LittleJerry (talk) 04:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Either way, these are not slight differences in this case. Somebody mentioned that the neck shapes are all noticeably different, and I agree with them; the feather patterns are also different. There's also the distinction between Antarctic penguins and the relatively more obscure tropical penguins (which the collage accomplishes by showing their varieties of habitats). Unnamed anon (talk) 00:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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