Talk:Peter Holmes (footballer)

Peter Holmes (footballer) has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 8, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Peter Holmes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Review[edit]

Sheffield Wednesday and Luton Town[edit]

Holmes was born on 18 November 1980 in Bishop Auckland, County Durham and graduated through the Football Association's School of Excellence

Did he graduate all the way through, in secondary school? Or university? Also, what exactly is "the Football Association's School of Excellence"?

I don't know when, I'm only able to go on what the reference says. I believe it's actually a "Centre of Excellence" and it is an establishment designed to "identify players of outstanding ability and place them in a technical and educational programme designed to produce excellence in conjunction with personal development".[1] Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

":You should say that , then. "School of Excellence" is really unclear. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added description. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He started his footballing career with FA Premier League side Sheffield Wednesday as a trainee in December 1997 after progressing through their youth team,[1] being promoted to the first team for the 1999–2000 season.

"being promoted to the first team for the 1999–2000 season" is gramatically incorrect. Try "and was promoted..."

Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After failing to appear in the Wednesday team,[2] he was signed by Luton Town on 1 August 2000 on a three-year contract,[5] whose manager Ricky Hill was impressed by Holmes while working as a coach at Wednesday

What is "the Wednesday team"?

Removed "Wednesday". Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Should be "for the team". Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced "in" with "for". Mattythewhite (talk) 12:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

His debut came after coming on as a substitute in a 1–0 defeat to Notts County in the Second Division on 12 August.

"His" does not have a clear antecedent.

Added "for Luton". Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, when I mean it does not have an antecedent, I mean that he could refere to Holmes (probably), or to manager Ricky Hill, who was referenced just before it. So, make which person that is clear. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He suffered from soreness in his leg after collapsing in a game against Rushden & Diamonds in December.

December when?

December 2001, but I thought it would just be repetitive to include the year when it was mentioned in the preceding sentence. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

His return to action saw him score from the edge of the penalty box with Luton's second goal in what finished as a 3–1 victory against Swansea City on 30 March 2002;[13] a goal that secured Luton's return to the Second Division.

Could be worded better: "He returned to action to score from the edge of the penalty box in a 3-1 vicoty against Swansea City on 30 March 2002; the goal secured Luton's return to the Second Division."

Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He picked up a hamstring injury during the 2–1 defeat to Cambridge United in the Football League Trophy on 10 December,[18][19] which was later confirmed to be a groin strain.

How can he have a hamstring injury if it was a groin strain? You should say "he thought" or "it appeared". Or better yet, leave the hamstring part out altogether. Also, what happened between this sentence, and the one before it. Six months go by, and you don't say anything about the offseason. At least provide a year, "the following season", "the next year", or something like that as a reference point. Instead of wikilinking "the 2002-03 season" at the end of the part about it, put it at the beginning. It makes it much clearer.

Rewritten. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He made his return to Luton's first-team in a 3–2 defeat to Mansfield Town on 4 March 2003 after coming on as a 74th minute substitute,[21] after which he scored in the following game against Huddersfield Town, scoring from an Ian Hillier cross in the 71st minute to help Luton to a 3–0 victory.

This is a run-on.

Splitted into two sentences. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The following season saw Holmes make 20 appearances and score three goals while Luton won promotion to the Championship,[32] after which he signed a new one-year contract in June 2005.

"After which" is not really a proper conjunction, making this a run-on.

Splitted into two sentences. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He signed a new one-year contract with the club in June 2006.

This is an orphaned sentence.

Rewritten. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The loan was extended for a further month on 8 February,[43] with Holmes saying he would consider signing for the club permanently when the loan expired,[44] eventually finishing the spell with 10 appearances and scored one goal.

Another run-on.

Splitted into two sentences. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

His debut came in a 3–2 defeat to Swindon Town and completed the loan spell with five appearances.

Should be "and he completed...

Added "he". Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rotherham United[edit]

Luton released Holmes on 8 May 2007 following their relegation to League One after nearly seven years with the club and he signed for Rotherham United in League Two on 14 June.

Terrible run-on.

Splitted into two sentences. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After having so far made one appearance during the 2008–09 season,

"After having so far made" isn't really great to use. Try: "after making only one..."

Rewritten. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He returned to Rotherham on 18 October after being recalled by the club and played his final game in the 2–0 victory against Rushden & Diamonds,[60][61] finishing the loan spell with five appearances and one goal

The part about "played his final game" and "finishing the loan spell" should come before "He returned to".

Rewritten. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

General[edit]

In the whole "Career" section, you almost always in this section start off a sentence with "He". "He scored", "He signed", "He did", and on and on like that. Try mixing it up, giving some variety to the prose, and make it more readable.

Tried to rejig the opening of some sentences. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, absolutely nothing about his personal life? Or anything at all outside soccer?

Not at the moment. I've tried searching for some information to add to a "Personal life" section, but haven't yet been successful. I'll keep on the lookout. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And, current ref 14 is a dead link.

Works fine for me. Is it the article entitled "I think I've changed the Gaffer's mind a little bit, says Peter Holmes"? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Noble Story (talk • contributions) 08:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, a few other things:

1. The two paragraphs in the "Sheffield Wednesday and Luton Town" section are rather long. Do you think you could split them into maybe 3 or 4 paragraphs?

Broken up into four paragraphs. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2. Again, when you move to the next season, try to say that. "During Luton's 4–0 victory at Hull City on 6 April,[16] Holmes suffered a knee ligament injury,[17] which ended his season with 10 appearances and one goal.[18] He received a groin strain during the 2–1 defeat to Cambridge United in the Football League Trophy on 10 December." This particular section jumps from one season to another with no mention of it; it can be very confusing. So, as I mentioned before, trying mentioning and linking to the particular season at beginning of the season, not at the end. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 11:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rewritten. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, looks like this now passes GA. Noble Story (talk • contributions) 12:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]