Talk:Petyhorcy

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What does this mean?[edit]

I found this, but I do not know how to translate it, so I wrote it out by hand, but I still don't know the exact meaning: Wiadomo, że Litewskie woysko na Wiedeńską wyprawę nie przyszło, lecz ledwie Króla pod Koszycami i Preszowem na powrocie spotkało. Petyhorcy, jazda lekka w woysku Litewskiem nie była z pod gór Karpackich, jak Czacki chce 1,288 lecz jak Czeremissi z pośrzód Rossyi, tak ci Petyhorcy z pośrzód Georgii mieli swoie imie. Wszakże awanturników mnóstwo Persów, Georgian cisnęło się do Polskiey służby. Widać to po rozmaitych Georgianów i Persów z Azyi nobilitacyach

This is what google translate (plus my basic knowledge) gives: It is known that the Lithuanian Army did not come to the Viennese expedition, but only met the King near Košice and Prešov on his return. Petyhorcy, light cavalry in Lithuanian Army was not from the Carpathian Mountains, as Czacki wants 1.288, but like Czeremissi from Russia, so those Petyhorcy from Georgia had their names. After all, a lot of adventurers, Persians, Georgians were pressed into the Polish service. This can be seen in the various Georgians and Persians of Asian nobility.

Can you add anything? --Cukrakalnis (talk) 15:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is the source.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 15:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe @Marcelus, @GizzyCatBella could help me?--Cukrakalnis (talk) 15:13, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cukrakalnis:My translation: It is known, that Lithuanian army didn't come to the Viennese expedition, but only met the King near Košice and Prešov on his return. Petyhorcy, ligh cavalry of the Lithuanian army wasn't from under the Carpathian Mountains, as Czacki [1.288 is a reference to some book, my guess is Czacki's book about Lithuanian Statues] claims, but like Cheremisa [author means here Cossack cavalry [pl] which was called "czeremisi" in Poland] out of Russia [Rossya - in Polish it should be Russia for a country, so unclear if author means Russia or Ruthenia], these Pertyhorcy out of Georgia [Georgia - In Polish it should be Gruzja, but author used Latin name] had their name. After all, a lot of adventurers, Persians, Georgians were entering the Polish service [military service]. It can be seen in the many ennoblements of Georgians and Persians from Asia. Marcelus (talk) 17:08, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Marcelus, Thank you for the translation. I'll add some things from it to the article.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cukrakalnis: Take into account that's very old article from 1831, and it's about trial by ordeals in Poland, not about military history Marcelus (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cukrakalnis: BTW Petyhorcy were also part of Armia Koronna, in late 17th century. And they in fact took part in the Vienna expedition, but as a part of private magnates troops; so it's not really true they were exclusively part of GDL army Marcelus (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus: Take into account that's very old article from 1831 what it says is not false (maybe somewhat imprecise, because Mount Beshtau is in Circassia, not Georgia, but the actual mountain is pretty close, so it's decent). It says general information, which is OK and mostly correct. You can remove the source if you want to, it does not really matter and it is not that important.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus: Petyhorcy were also part of Armia Koronna, in late 17th century. Really? From what I have seen, it is said that pancerny are clearly Crown Army and petyhorcy is clearly Lithuanian Army, so I would be interested to see you adding sourced statements about that.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cukrakalnis: I will when I will have more time. In general if we talk about Petyhorcy we talk about two types of unit: light "Cossack-like" cavalry in late 16th-early 17th century; and Polish hussar like heavy cavalry with lances - bothe were present in the Grand Duch and the Crown, but more often in GDL of course Marcelus (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelus: Interesting, I am keen to see what you will write! This is precisely what constitutes building an encyclopedia :) --Cukrakalnis (talk) 21:08, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]