Talk:Phil Rizzuto

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Brother[edit]

Did Phil have a brother named Frank who was a teacher from Rockland county NY or was that his cousin.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.134.230.128 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 25 January 2006.

So when was he born?[edit]

It says that he was born in 1917, but then implies that he falsified his age when he was first signed up; was he really born in 1916? Runcorn 11:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like the reverse of Al "Grampa Munster" Lewis.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Radio Guy (talk • contribs) 21:44, 14 August 2007.

The New York Post reports that he lied about his age and that the 1916 date is correct. Other sources noting 1916 mention this deception as well. Rklawton 12:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, he lied about his age to appear younger, the better for contract negotiations with the Yanks. fethers 14:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably worth adding to the article--i.e., the information on the ambiguity and both dates, perhaps in the "Early years" section or the lead--rather than just the date, which is likely to continue to be changed by future editors. (N.B. currently still listed in the 1917 births category). --Evil1987 19:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Phil Rizzuto definitely was born in 1917. He commented in some interview that he had lied by a year during his playing career when his birth year was listed as 1918. He restored the year a few years after his playing career ended in 1956. Internet records confirm the 1917 date (New York Post mistakenly thought he had not restored the year.) He was born 9/25/1917; died 8/13/2007; debut was 4/14/1941; final game was 9/16/1956. These facts are not in dispute. Please leave them as it is. --KrazyChicken 16:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We can't use this information in the article unless you have a reliable, verifiable source that explains it the way you did. The only sources we have either say 1917 - or they say 1916 with the explanation that Phil had originally lied about his age. To use the information you provided, we'll need a source. Rklawton 16:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added dispute tags to encourage some more input on the matter. I think there is enough to warrant further discussion, even without the sockpuppetry issue. Feel free to remove them if you disagree. I'm not heavily invested in this article, as I was just following a serial vandal. Dancter 01:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good call. I have no preference either - just he usual: reliable, verifiable, yadda yadda. Rklawton 01:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Hall of Fame website cites the 1917 date (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=121257). For the 1916 birthdate to be correct, Rizzuto would have had to be a 24-year-old rookie going on 25. My suggestion would be to use 1917 in the opening sentence, tack on a "see below," and then invoke the HoF source while mentioning the attendant confusion and debate. But I'll leave it to those with hotter blood to sort out.24.239.178.19 14:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Woohoo! The HoF website mini-biography states 1917[1]. However, the HoF full biography [2] states 1916 - and explains the error. I think this should set the record straight. What does everyone else think? Rklawton 14:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds terrif! Mind you, it won't satisfy the aforementioned sockpuppeteer (trust me, nothing does, unfortunately). But for the rest of us reasonable folks, it sounds like the best solution. :) -Ebyabe 14:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can tell, none of the sources that list 1917 make any explanation as to the statement Phil made to the New York Post. KrazyChicken's idea that Phil lied about being born in 1918 and was really born in 1917 simply isn't repeated by any source at all. If someone could help find one, that would be great. But what we have right now is a bunch of sources that say 1917 without reference to the lie and a few sources that state 1916 with reference to the lie and no sources that mention 1918 at all. Rklawton 15:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good-o. But like I said, not good enough for the abusive sockpuppeteer, as can be seen here. I've reported him to ANI, but will let others revert the edits he's made. -Ebyabe 15:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in mind that what you described as the "HoF full biography" is actually a news story for MLB.com, and their reporters aren't necessarily consulting official records. The writer may have been using the other news sources discussed here. I'll try and take a look at some of the contemporary sources early next week to see what year was listed early in his career. MisfitToys 23:31, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK - throughout his career, Rizzuto was listed as having been born in 1918, in both The Sporting News Baseball Register (1942 through 1956 editions) and the American League Red Book (1948 through 1956). The question is whether he lied by one year (born in 1917 but said 1918) and later corrected this, and the reporters are mistaken; or he originally lied by two years (born 1916 but said 1918) and later revised this to a one-year change but only privately confided the full difference. We may have to wait for Social Security or military records to surface in order to resolve this completely. MisfitToys 21:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Today's New York Times has an article [3] claiming that he was actually born in 1916. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 22:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The same NY Times article also mentions that the New York City Department of Health has Rizzuto as being born in 1917, NOT 1916.GodfreyDaniels 14:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some Wikipedia editors have speculated that Rizzuto was lying about the 1916 date and that he really was born in 1917. That's fine - but before we can put it in the article as such, we'll need reliable sources that support this idea. Simply pointing the the department of health records and then speculating on which date is correct constitutes original research. Let's let the journalists do their job and then just cite their results. As it stands, the NYT is the latest/current word on Rizzuto's birth year. Rklawton 14:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So when did he die?[edit]

Some sources say Monday night. Some sources say Tuesday. MLB, cited in the top paragraph, says Tuesday. Does anyone have a citation that's more authoritative? Rklawton 12:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was confused because it wasn't ref'd, it just looked like it'd been tossed in. The Post article cited for the death date also states he died Monday night. The Daily News says Monday night, and the Yankees' official statement from MLB.com says Monday, too fethers 14:30, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Late Monday night" may well translate into the 8/14 date, so I'm looking for something a bit diffinitive. The link (bottom) you removed was also from the MLB and stated Tuesday. I'm happy to keep the date as-is, but I'm really hoping someone will turn up the best possible source. Rklawton 14:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This source says yesterday morning as of 8/15, so it could be used for a definitive date of 8/14. --Evil1987 19:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't give a columnist too much credit. He also stated that Rizzuto was 89. Rklawton 19:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If he was at a nursing home, presumably they found him in the morning and don't know what time he died. They probably wouldn't do an autopsy to determine time of death either. --Evil1987 19:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The NYT article about his birth date also mentions that the time of death isn't certain but his sister believes it was 11:00 p.m. on the 13th. Rklawton 14:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Poetry reversion[edit]

The original poems pass muster under WP:FAIRUSE, but the excerpted poems satisfy both those rules and Jaranda's concerns about complete "works." I don't understand the reversion. Considering the 1916-1917 debate, there's no need or desire to open a second battlefront on this article.24.239.178.19 18:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only a couple of lines of one poem meets it, not whole poems or good chunks of poems. Jaranda wat's sup 18:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think both of you are past the 3RR limit. Dancter 18:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User Jaranda is mistaken on this point (see the Wikipage for Ogden Nash, which contains several complete poems... among other Wiki examples). He/she has also reported a 3RR violation in error-- see my comments there. I hope User Jaranda will continue to demonstrate good faith.24.239.178.19 19:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just trimmed most of the poems in Ogden Nash, that was overuse right there. Jaranda wat's sup 19:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okun/WorldsFair/Robustelli/KChicken edits[edit]

You've made a lot of excellent edits and additions to this page. However, the "This settled the matter" comment is doomed-- it even contradicts the Chass article you're attaching it to. Leo Durocher doesn't belong in the intro, and Stirnweiss' train crash doesn't belong at all... it's not as if Snuffy shouted out his advice from the window as he pulled out of the station. I think I've tightened up your strong info on the origins of Rizzuto's broadcasting career. And I moved the DiMaggio "Phil Rizzuto Day" quote over to Phil Rizzuto Day. Good catch on the 1949/1950 "one game" error. I hope this all meets with your satisfaction.208.120.225.102 14:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC) The Durocher and Stirnweiss items are definitely appropriate to a lengthy biographical article. Anyone who now feels Rizzuto's birthyear is anything but 1917 has some sort of an agenda or paranoia. Don't start making a million and one changes to damage the article. Many good men (and manybe a few women) have worked on it. --Bernard okun 15:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Rizzuto in popular culture"[edit]

I don't know if maybe I missed it or not. I don't seem to see it mentioned. But in Meatloaf's song, "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", there's a section where you can hear Rizzuto's voice in the background as the song is going on. Shouldn't that be included in this section of Rizzuto's story? Valerie, Bronx, NY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.48.109 (talk) 20:03, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it already is. Stonemason89 (talk) 00:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic?[edit]

Was he Catholic? The "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" paragraph seems to hint that he was. Stonemason89 (talk) 00:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he was raised a Roman Catholic, and was member of St. Pancras parish on 68th Street in Glendale, Queens, New York. He grew up in the Liberty Park section of Glendale and went to elementary school at St. Pancras School. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4400:d383:906d:bc1c:cadb:6791 (talk • contribs) 01:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Celebrity Advertising role[edit]

No mention of his spokesman role, (e.g., Rollfast bicycles), perhaps this is because of his 2nd career as a commercial radio/t.v. sports announcer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.183.224.2 (talk) 22:16, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Patricia Rizzuto[edit]

died in 2016 (see legacy obituary for Patricia Rizzuto, 1944-2016.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 21:52, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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