Talk:Pièces de Clavecin

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Title[edit]

Shouldn't the title of this article be 'Pièces de Clavecin (Rameau)'? It's a generic title for a book of harpsichord music - hundreds and hundreds of composers published books entitled 'Pièces de Clavecin' - Couperin's four, for instance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.235.252 (talk) 21:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Couperin's are arguably more famous. There needs to be a disambig. 86.129.204.146 (talk) 21:51, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note on title[edit]

I don't intend to start a "move war" over this but I'd just like to note this was at Pieces de clavecin (no accents) because that was the spelling used by the original French editions and is the version used by Grove.--Folantin (talk) 08:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Folantin is quite right: the names are rather fluid - note the 2nd set were published for "clavessin". Also, the 1741 republication of the earlier editions have the added accent, per the ongoing reforms of French orthography in the 18th Century. My basic feeling is we should go with the original title, but there may be a naming protocol of which I am unaware, in which case please excuse my ignorance. Here is the list of keyboard compositions from Groves, which should still be considered definitive, the updated dating of the recent Barenreiter editions notwithstanding. Eusebeus (talk) 15:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Premier livre de pieces de clavecin (Paris, 1706, repr. 1741 as Pièces de clavecin … oeuvre premier): Prélude, a; Alemande, a; 2e alemande, a; Courante, a; Gigue, a; 1ère sarabande, a; 2e sarabande, A; Vénitienne, A; Gavote, a; Menuet, a; Jc, G

Pieces de clavessin avec une methode pour la mechanique des doigts (Paris, 1724/R, rev. 1731 as Pieces de clavecin avec une table pour les agrémens): Menuet en rondeau, C; Allemande, e; Courante, e; Gigue en rondeau, e; 2e gigue en rondeau, E; Le rappel des oiseaux, e; lr rigaudon, e; 2d rigaudon, E; Double du 2d rigaudon, E. Musette en rondeau, E; Tembourin, e; La vilageoise, rondeau, e; Les tendres plaintes, rondeau, d; Les niais de Sologne [with 2 doubles], D; Les soupirs, D; La joyeuse, rondeau, D; La follette, rondeau, D; L’entretien des Muses, d; Les tourbillons, rondeau, D; Les cyclopes, rondeau, d; Le lardon, menuet, D; La boiteuse, d; Jc, G

Nouvelles suites de pieces de clavecin … avec des remarques sur les différens genres de musique (Paris, c1729–30, rev. 2/after 1760/R): Allemande, a; Courante, a; Sarabande, A; Les trois mains, a; Fanfarinette, A; La triomphante, A; Gavotte [with 6 doubles], a; Les tricotets, rondeau, G; L’indifferente, g; Menuet, G; La poule, g; 2e menuet, g [intended to be paired with the previous menuet]; Les triolets, G; Les sauvages, g; L’enharmonique, g; L’egiptienne, g; Jc, G

Rameau was notoriously bad at spelling. IIRC that's why we have Pigmalion rather than Pygmalion. --Folantin (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Almost certainly wrong... there was no standardized spelling in any languages in the time of Rameau. see, e.g. Reforms of French orthography 86.129.204.146 (talk) 21:59, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The key designations for Suites[edit]

I reverted the edit from 04:25, 23 June 2012‎ which changed "A minor" to "A major" on the first Nouvelle Suite because it was incorrect (and unsubstatiated). I am listening to the first Nouvelle Suite right now and it begins and ends in A minor. Some of the inner movements (3,6,7) are in A major but I think it is unnecessary to say "Suite in A minor/A major" because the key of a larger work is generally indicated as the key in which it begins and ends. The second Nouvelle Suite also mixes major and minor but is called "Suite in G major/G minor" here presumably because it begins in G major but ends in G minor which makes a single designation for the key ambiguous.

The designation here of "Suite in D major" for the second suite in the 1724 book is also problematic. The first, sixth, eighth, and last movements are in D minor but the other 6 movements are in D major. How should it be labeled (if at all)? (I am not changing it because I don't have a source and because either label of "D minor" or "D major" seems misleading).

On another note: the sources that I have access to (the Dover edition of the music score and the listings/notes from a couple of recordings) do not divide the pieces in the 1724 and 1726 books into two suites per book as this Wikipedia article does. Perhaps Rameau did not label them as such. However, the liner notes by Clemens Romijn (2009) for the Pieter-Jan Belder recording do state that "each [book] contains a pair of suites contrasted both in tonality and in character." -- AThornyKoanz (talk) 21:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]