Talk:PlayStation 3/Archive/MGS4 Sales

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From Talk:PlayStation 3

Best selling game (2)

the best selling game should be corrected to MGS4 which says it has sold over 4.33 million; not motorstorm which has only 3 million!--Andychole (talk) 18:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Any sources?--Megaman en m (talk) 21:46, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

http://www.konami.co.jp/zaimu/0809/english/supplemental.pdf#page=5 shows it has --Andychole (talk) 12:46, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Discoh8er used that link but it was reverted by ChimpanzeeUK due to the fact that it is for the Metal Gear Solid Series of games not just for MGS4. Konami need to bring out information that says explicitly that MGS4 on its own sold that many, then it can be changed. Dark verdant (talk) 13:11, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/mgs4-sells-over-4-million-copies

There's another source from Eurogamer that actually names MGS4. Read the article. And the Xbox 360's source for Halo 3 being the highest selling game is from Gamespot, so do not say that that is not a reliable source.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Discoh8er (talk • contribs) 11:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

See #Konami's website states MGS4 is bestselling and Talk:List of best-selling video games/Archive 6#MGS4. --Silver Edge (talk) 09:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Basically, Eurogamer had the same document and mis-interpreted when they published their article. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 10:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

VgChartz says GTAIV --Ciao 90 (talk) 21:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not gonna even waste my time on this article anymore. Everybody knows that MGS4 is the best selling game exclusive game. Compared to the other console's best selling games, Motorstorm's sales standings is, to be frank, embarrassing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Discoh8er (talk • contribs) 19:11, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I must say that sections like this, ones that only add controversy and change too quickly to add value, should be removed from the article altogether. To think that sales data is collected quickly enough is absurd. To imagine that video game sites are updated with this information regularly enough is ridiculous. To imagine that we could keep up with the ever-changing and constantly conflicting reports from the various sources is pure folly. The statement needs to be removed. Padillah (talk) 15:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

MGS4 according to GameSpot

why u erase this, at least tell me why you dont put it as the best selling game [1] i think that should be enough! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.56.69.161 (talk) 03:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I Agree! MGS4 is the best selling game with 4.5 million copies. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6204195.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3 68.186.148.135 (talk) 11:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

To the guy who made this section, I deleted your comment because you placed it under the wrong section. Do you honestly think that it is appropriate to talk about MGS4 as the top-selling game under a section about the 45nm cell processors that are soon to replace current 65nm PS3 models? A section already exists regarding your MGS4 issue. Why you can't be bothered to scroll up and instead, decided to spam the talk page is beyond me. By the way, learn to sign your comments. No one is going to take your words seriously when you can't be bothered to sign in. (Psychoneko (talk) 14:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC))

So I went through the article again. I don't see where it said anything about Motorstorm being the best selling game of all, only where it says "best selling game of 2007". If you're not going to bother mentioning which section you have a problem with, then I don't see a reason why this section should continue to be on this talk page. (Psychoneko (talk) 16:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC))

In the chart describing the ps3 at the beginning, below Online services it says "Best selling game" and it says motorstorm (AS december 30,2007) that means the game sold 3.33 million at december 2 years ago, now here says MGS4 has sold 4.5 millions last year, sorry for the bad english —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuevo003 (talk • contribs) 22:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

There is not yet a reliable source that states that MGS4 has sold 4.5m. There have been many discussions about this. Please see the latest one here for more details. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 22:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Responding to the unsigned signature, that's not a chart, that's the infobox. (Psychoneko (talk) 15:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC))

MGS4 is best selling game

4.5 million copies. http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/4569.html 68.186.148.135 (talk) 21:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm tired of this BS. (This has been discussed far too many times on this talk page.) Can we just remove the old best selling game note on the info box until someone can find a legitimate, non-misleading source for another game? Khalfani Khaldun 22:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

There, there, don't be harsh on the anonymous. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 22:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Haha, sorry, it wasn't directed specifically towards this one, but more toward the hundred people in total that have brought this up. =P But seriously, can't we just get rid of the minor - but for some reason frequently disputed - item? Khalfani Khaldun 23:02, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean remove the "Best-selling game"/topgame parameter from Template:Infobox Information appliance? Because that's what I think should be done, since a majority of the console articles that use that infobox parameter don't have a source that specifically states that the title listed is the console's best-selling game, just a source that says it sold X number of copies. --Silver Edge (talk) 05:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Khalfani Khaldun 05:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm in agreement that the "best-selling" game is getting really irritating. Thing is, if we do it for this article, we'll need to remove the "best-selling" game from the articles for the other systems. I think that it is humanly impossible to keep track of such popular titles considering that we have no definitive way of confirming such sales. (Psychoneko (talk) 08:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC))

I've brought up the issue on the template's talk page and proposed that the infobox be changed. --Silver Edge (talk) 10:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

While Silver Edge is leading the charge on the template itself, can we take a quick vote here to remove it from the PS3 article, at least? My vote is for, since its clearly a topic of frequent contention and doesn't isn't possible to keep track of reliably. Khalfani Khaldun 00:53, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

With all respect, this is interesting info to have in the infobox, it should on the other hand be changed to whats right, if its Mgs4, thats what it should say. There will always be info out there of what is correct, don't hide it just because it changes what is the bestselling game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.193.221 (talk)

I think the issue is that we can't say that MGS4 is the best-selling game because we don't have a source that states that it is. But we also can't really say Motorstorm is because the source we have is out-dated. Therefore, we essentially don't know what the best-selling game is so it shoudn't be stated in the article at all... Unless I've completely missed the point?! :) ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 01:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that is the issue. The statement, "there will always be info out there of what is correct," while accurate, is not necessarily helpful. Yes, the information does exist in some form, but whether it's been brought together to actually say "this is the best-selling game," or if it's even available to the public are completely different stories. I'm sure Sony knows exactly what the best-selling game is, but as far as any regular contributors here know it's not been released since the Motorstorm statement two years ago. Khalfani Khaldun 01:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm in agreement that we should remove it (the statement about the best-selling game) from the infobox. My only gripe is that we do the same for the other articles such as the PS2, Xbox360, and Nintendo Wii. (Psychoneko (talk) 14:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

I disagree. If the information is available for the other platforms I see no reason to remove valid, useful information? ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 21:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, the problem is keeping it updated. I don't see a reliable news outlet that actually keeps track of these sales reports aside from sources that don't fall under Wiki's guidelines. (Psychoneko (talk) 05:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC))

I don't follow the other consoles (or their articles) so I don't really know if the information is valid or not. If those articles have the same problem as this one, then yes, maybe the information should be removed from those too, but if they are correct, up to date and souced then I don't think the information should be removed. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 23:59, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's the problem. I've just tabbed over to the Xbox 360 article and the information listed on the infobox is over a year old. Hence my statement that there isn't a reliable source that keeps track of sales numbers on a consistent basis. (Psychoneko (talk) 06:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC))

The Wii article actually uses the parameter correctly, and even lists two games. Since one was bundled with all the Wiis, I think they thought it appropriate to list that and the one that sold the most on its own. The problem with the 360 source is that it doesn't even say anything about the "best-selling" game, it just list the number of copies that Halo 3 has sold, so it's not a legitimate source either. We can't even just find a source that just tells us the number of copies a game has sold and compare it to other numbers, as that (somewhat justifiably) counts as original research since it is a combination of multiple sources. Unless we find a source that says "x game is the best-selling game on this console," the parameter is virtually useless. Khalfani Khaldun 18:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

It's not that it's useless or anything but it feels more like it hasn't been researched properly. There's no systematic method to check on this particular parameter and none of the available sources have put in the effort and resources to keep track of such numbers. I'd say that the only ones who do have access to all the hard numbers are the game publishers or console makers (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) but it's hard to get a decent white paper out of them for various reasons. What we need is a database that can keep track of this but no one seems to be interested in making it. (Psychoneko (talk) 21:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC))

For all we know, during this discussion, Killzone 2 could have reached bestseller. Ffgamera (talk) 12:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

What is the dispute here? If you can cite Reliable Source A which states that Game X has sold 4.5 million units and is the top selling game on the platform, then put the data (sales number and the date of the reference) in with an inline citation, and update it when the information changes. If an editor later finds at Reliable Source B that Game Y has sold 5 million units, but Reliable Source B does not state that Game Y is the highest selling game on the platform, then he's not allowed to replace the data from Reliable Source A, and should be reverted if he does. Tempshill (talk) 18:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Sales figures from Konami, http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/meeting/2009/0514.pdf MGS4 @ 4.75M Magasin (talk) 06:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Another source says MGS 4.7m

from Gamasutra: "PS3 exclusive Metal Gear Solid 4 has now reached 4.75 million units worldwide, says Konami, touting MGS's strength as a "brand" on the same day a teaser website for the next Kojima Productions title is unveiled -- with more details promised to reveal at the site tomorrow." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.81.47 (talk) 11:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Apparently, Konami says so too. http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/meeting/2009/0514.pdf Magasin (talk) 06:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

So, once again people are failing to recognize that Konami is only reporting the total sales of the whole genre/series, not MGS4. Read that report again and tell me exactly where it says that MGS4 sold 4.75 million copies. Because I found the chart that listed the series as selling that amount, but not that specific game. That only supports the "Gamasutra misinterpreted their statement" view.

As an aside, it still really doesn't matter how much they have sold. In order to list a game as the highest-selling, there has to be a source that says it is so, otherwise it qualifies as original research. Khalfani Khaldun 06:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

In that case, Motorstorm should also be removed, as the source does not specifically state that it is the best-selling title on the system. Also, the latest numbers from Plyphony Digital says that Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has sold 3.67 million copies. http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html Lars Holm (talk) 08:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Consistency with MGS4 sales

The MGS4 page 4.75 million sales...but the best selling PS3 game is MotorStorm with 3.31 million..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.13.103 (talk) 12:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It does not say that. It says "The game has been a driving force behind sales of the Metal Gear franchise, helping it to sales of over 4.75 million units since April 2008". The franchise sold 4.75m. Chimpanzee - User | Talk | Contribs 12:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

ChimpanzeeUK, your not even a gamer so do not talk back. MGS 3 alone sold 5 million copies, and your telling me that the Whole MGS franchise sold 4.75 million copies? Please note, the signature button is not working, probably a bug.

Sources stating MGS 4 selling around 4 - 4.5 million copies. http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/metal-gear-solid-4-sells-45-million-as-konamis-profits-rise-17/?biz=1 http://www.gamespot.com/news/6204195.html http://www.aol.com.au/games/story/Metal-Gear-Solid-4-Sells-45-Million-as-Konamis-Profits-Rise-17/1646661/index.html

There you have it, MGS 4 is the best selling ps3 game.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafichamp (talk • contribs)

So, about those articles: Gamespot's article echos the fact that all the report gave was data about the whole series; the Game Daily article says its source is the Konami end of year financial report, but I've read the report and it never once mentions just MGS4 so it's clearly yet another misinterpretation; and the AOL article is just a copy of the Game Daily article report. On top of all this, as long as no source actually states that MGS4 is the top-selling game, saying that it is in the article based on analyzing numbers from various sources is a violation of WP:SYNTH.

As a side note, please watch your tone when addressing other users. Being a bit friendlier helps keep everybody happier, and it's really not that hard. Khalfani Khaldun 07:51, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Lol. Whatever you say buddy. Like Khalfani said, all of the articles you cited either refernece the finiacial report directly or if they don't it's safe to assume that that was their source given the dates and numbers meaning that they have all misinterpreted the report. Chimpanzee - User | Talk | Contribs 13:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

ChimpanzeeUK and Khalfani have already refuted Rafichamp's "argument", but I want my turn, dammit. Even if we make the assumption that MGS4 did indeed sell 4.75 million copies, how would you know that some other game hasn't sold more? I mean, there's anecdotal "evidence" and hearsay that GTA4 sold over 5 million copies, but why is no one championing that game as the most sold? Or, what if some unknown game has actually sold more than this supposed 4.75 million figure, but no one has mad a song and dance about it, thus, no one knows it's sold more? Unless a reliable source explicitly states MGS4 is the best-selling PS3 game, it shouldn't be listed as such (even if the 4.75 million figure is true; which it isn't). 123.211.141.151 (talk) 13:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Why is Motorstorm then even allowed to be there in the first place? The source used only claims that Motorstorm was a "chart topper", which does absolutely not in any way confirm it as the best-selling game of all time, because that's not even what chart topper means. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_topper Lars Holm (talk) 07:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well then, it should indeed be rightfully removed. I think it was removed one or more times for that very reason, but someone added it back, and no one has bothered to remove it again. Frvernchanezzz (talk) 08:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

From Talk:List of best-selling video games

MGS4

Konami's recent quarterly report indicates that the "Metal Gear series" has "sold over 4 million units" in the quarter and that the "Metal Gear genre/category" sold 4.33 million units; however, an article from psu.com, which cites the Konami quarterly report as its source, states that the 4.33 million figure in the quarterly report as Metal Gear Solid 4 sales. I don't see why the psu.com article should be used as a source for Metal Gear Solid 4 sales in this article or PlayStation 3, when we can see that Konami's quarterly report itself doesn't state that the 4.33 million sales figure is specifically for MGS4. --Silver Edge (talk) 12:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I normally use Gamasutra, and they claim 4.33m shipped for the series, and 4m for MGS4. I agree that when the sources interpret another source the wrong way, we should keep the original one. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd doubt that Konami's sales are up to date, but I am also a little doubtful that MGS4 sold 4 million chocobogamer LOOK AT WHAT I DID 11:41, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots sells 4.33 million copies!

Here is the article.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=285433

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200752.html?sid=6200752&part=rss&subj=6200752 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs) 22:46, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for being on the look out for new sales figures, but please see the MGS4 discussion above for why that figure is incorrect. -Zomic13 (talk) 00:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Metal Gear Solid 4 again

The report from Konami reads:

Computer & Video Games business: METAL GEAR SOLID 4 GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS, released simultaneously around the world in June 2008, was named by the U.S. major video gaming site Game Spot the Game of the Year in its Best of 2008 roundup of winning titles. The METAL GEAR series is exhibiting its strength as a brand, steadily increasing the number sold year-to-date to more than 4.5 million units as of the end of this consolidated third quarter.

We already have this discussion in the past. I guess we should use the same rationale by not accepting the 4.5m units since it refers to the "series" and not MGS4 in particular for the amount. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The gamespot link [2] (and the Konami report too) clearly states that its MGS4 that has sold 4.5 million and doesn't mention anything about the series. It also says that it sold .5 million in October to December which strengthens the point that its actually whole MGS4 which sold 4.5 million (as it would have sold less than 4 million till October, which we were already agreeing upon). So I think we should put MGS4 at 4.5 million cause these reports aren't mentioning the whole series anywhere.

kittoo (talk) 07:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Please check the PDF I linked. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

the konami source clearly states series, so it cannot be accepted, but for future reference we need to discuss the pointers, such as where these days can you buy MGS1/2/3 brand new on any format with official retailers/etailers? as they don't get sales figures from 2nd hand or resellers.

I'm always sceptical about sales figures for this game, no doubt its a seller, but 4.5 million seems to round, and too large, for the time its been out. I know that most people bought a PS3 for 3 main games: GT5, MGS4 and FF13 (before it became multiformat), but thats still like 1-in-4.

I think, until the game hits 5 million itself, there won't be a reliable source chocobogamer mine 22:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I just found a reference from GameSpot that says MGS4 has 4.5 million copies sold. Here's the reference. http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchnews.asp?newsid=163681 GamerPro64 (talk) 23:01, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

There is a problem with that though. They state the info is from the Konami financial report. However, I just found the financial report they mention and it does not state how many copies MGS4 sold: [3]. TJ Spyke 23:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

the report is what started this convo, as the last konami report was misquoted identically. il say pretty soon that the sales figures will be so minimal for the other games (less than .1m, if they arent already), so it prob wont make a difference whether to quote the article as being all MGS4, after the first year the games out itl b exact figures anyway - its just 'fy' stuff chocobogamer mine 00:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure that most of those 4.5 million are MGS4 (the only other MG game that could have any real sales right now would be Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops Plus and that came out like a year ago). But yeah, we need the actual sales for just MGS4. TJ Spyke 01:12, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Look, professional gaming sites know what they're writing about. They don't simply hand out false info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs) 12:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

No one is saying they did it on purpose, just that that they misinterpreted what Konami actually said (Konami said they have sold 4.5 million games in the Metal Gear series sine June, some sites thought that meant just MGS4.). TJ Spyke 21:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Except that no other Metal Gear games sell right now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs) 16:02, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes they do. Unless you are saying that they sold every single copy of other MG games were sold before June? Just going by Amazon alone: [LINKS REMOVED WHEN ARCHIVING TO PASS SPAM FILTER]. While MGS4 probably made up the bulk of those sales, it is NOT the only Metal Gear game still selling new copies. TJ Spyke 17:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Ridiculous, why would any other MGS game make up over 500,000 of the report? Ffgamera (talk) 07:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

We cannot reinterpret sources (see WP:SYN). If the article says the series sold 4.5m, we cannot assume they are all from MGS4. "The METAL GEAR series is exhibiting its strength as a brand, steadily increasing the number sold year-to-date to more than 4.5 million units as of the end of this consolidated third quarter." is very different from saying "METAL GEAR ~~series~~ SOLID 4 is exhibiting its strength ~~as a brand~~, steadily increasing the number sold year-to-date to more than 4.5 million units as of the end of this consolidated third quarter." Note that we are pretty strict (like when Halo 3 had a million preorders and people were adding it because they were virtually sold, or in the franchises list where we know the Smash Bros. series had sold over 5m but we haven't added that yet because we haven't found an article stating "The Smash Bros. series have sold over..." -- ReyBrujo (talk) 07:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah this is ridiculous it says mgs4 sold 4.5 so why the un dont understand, or u dont WANT to understand, or maybe you CANT understand things oh well lol at wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuevo003 (talk • contribs) 19:03, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

No, it does NOT say that MGS 4 sold 4.5 million. TJ Spyke 23:18, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Anyone know where Qj.net have plucked "MGS4's 26.5 million sales" from? (other than their arses) [4] ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 16:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Metal Gear Solid franchise sold 22 million, plus the 4.5m reported by Konami. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:26, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

From Talk:History of video game consoles (seventh generation)

Highest Selling PS3 Game

The link we have is way out of date for Motorstorm. Off-hand, MGS4 came to mind.

http://kotaku.com/5033383/metal-gear-solid-4-is-a-giant-angry-sales-pac+man-ships-394m-copies

What do you think?70.131.211.219 (talk) 13:40, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

This has been raised before. The problem is, it has only been stated how many copies of MGS have been shipped, not the number sold. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 13:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC)