Talk:Pogoniani
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[edit]@Ahmet Q.: added that About 44% of the population of the commune of Pogoniani are migrants, mostly Albanians.
based on For example, foreigners – mostly Albanians – constitute around 44 per cent of the total population in the communes of Pogoniani and Périvoli along the Albanian border.
. What constitutes "source falsification" in Ahmet's edit @Alexikoua:? It's almost verbatim and the article discusses both the commune and the village of Pogoniani which Ahmet Q. has marked correctly. In terms of bibliography use, there's nothing that marks the edit as "source falsification" or WP:UNDUE. --Maleschreiber (talk) 02:17, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment: Ahmet, where is Perivoli? I'm not sure if one of these places is Perivoli.--Maleschreiber (talk) 02:27, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not quite sure myself, the only Perivoli that's the closest to the Albanian border is the one located in Corfou. Ahmet Q. (talk) 02:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment: It's fascinating how many Albanian editors who have contributed to this article have focused on the distant past, but completely ignored the present. I think that more should be written about the Albanian migrant communities which - like all migrant communities - are often forgotten and made invisible in many narratives. Thank you Ahmet.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment 2: Finished reading sq:Voshtina written by Resnjari. Fascinating. Every community, big or small, has its own interesting stories to tell.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:19, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- I've fixed the recent addition since no Greek census collects data on ethnicity but on citizenship. So by counting members of Albanian citizenship this doesn't make them ethnic Albanians considering that Pogoniani hosts indeed a signicant community of Northern Epirotes (i.e. holders of Albanian citizenship).Alexikoua (talk) 06:41, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Indeed its amazing how a small village contributes to the economic life of nearby Albania.Alexikoua (talk) 07:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Vullnetari (2012) writes
mostly Albanians
but doesn't discuss(ethnic Greeks from Albania included)
and it can't be inferred in any way, shape or form. I can agree to a change to "Albanian citizens" in the context of the census, but you can't ask for more than what the sources say.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)- Side comment: I always verify bibliography because I consider it a responsibility towards the readers to put forward reliable and accurate information. You wrote that a vocational training center for Greeks from Albania operates in this village. It doesn't. It ended its operation in 2012 and the last school of the village was closed in 2011 because only older people live in this village.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- All of the sudden Vulnetari refers to the census of 2001 which concerns this time period. You can't claim that 2001 census data are present situation while the Iek-educational center (1991-2012) belongs to the past. A typical census conducted with EU standarts counts the entire population (students included).Alexikoua (talk) 19:32, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- The article needs to stress that during this period a part of those holding Albanian citizenship were ethnic Greeks [[1]].Alexikoua (talk) 19:57, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- If some part of them identify as Greeks, there should be bibliography that discusses the 2001 census in terms of ethnic identity. Vullnetari (2012) discusses three particular factors which increase emigration to Pogoniani. I don't think that you'll be able to find a source which discusses a causal relationship ("as such") between a vocational center and emigration. --Maleschreiber (talk) 20:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Albanian citizens that lived in Pogoniani were also ethnic Greeks from Albania, it's sourced.Alexikoua (talk) 22:11, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- If some part of them identify as Greeks, there should be bibliography that discusses the 2001 census in terms of ethnic identity. Vullnetari (2012) discusses three particular factors which increase emigration to Pogoniani. I don't think that you'll be able to find a source which discusses a causal relationship ("as such") between a vocational center and emigration. --Maleschreiber (talk) 20:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment: I always verify bibliography because I consider it a responsibility towards the readers to put forward reliable and accurate information. You wrote that a vocational training center for Greeks from Albania operates in this village. It doesn't. It ended its operation in 2012 and the last school of the village was closed in 2011 because only older people live in this village.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Vullnetari (2012) writes
- Indeed its amazing how a small village contributes to the economic life of nearby Albania.Alexikoua (talk) 07:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- I've fixed the recent addition since no Greek census collects data on ethnicity but on citizenship. So by counting members of Albanian citizenship this doesn't make them ethnic Albanians considering that Pogoniani hosts indeed a signicant community of Northern Epirotes (i.e. holders of Albanian citizenship).Alexikoua (talk) 06:41, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment 2: Finished reading sq:Voshtina written by Resnjari. Fascinating. Every community, big or small, has its own interesting stories to tell.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:19, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Side comment: It's fascinating how many Albanian editors who have contributed to this article have focused on the distant past, but completely ignored the present. I think that more should be written about the Albanian migrant communities which - like all migrant communities - are often forgotten and made invisible in many narratives. Thank you Ahmet.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not quite sure myself, the only Perivoli that's the closest to the Albanian border is the one located in Corfou. Ahmet Q. (talk) 02:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
"Tanea.gr" is supposed to be RS because of what again? Ahmet Q. (talk) 21:31, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- In terms of what we're discussing, it doesn't matter if it's RS for this particular subject. It says that 44 Greek students had been in the commune/village in total since the opening of the vocational center in 1993 and another 30 were attending a local highschool. If these people were counted for the purpose of the census doesn't affect the placement on the infobox of a local name that is discussed at the WP:LEDE.--Maleschreiber (talk) 21:52, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- In 2001 there were immigrants in the village, some of the belonged to the ethnic Greek community from Albania. 44 Greek students had been in the commune/village in total since the opening of the vocational center. I don't thing so, you already added that this number is... 2,280. 44 is the number for the specific year +the pupils of the local school.Alexikoua (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)