Talk:Prawn cracker/Archive 1

Archive 1

Move to krupuk

Whilst in principle, i agree with the move, I would hardly call the move or the chanes made to the article minor edits. I would have also liked to have had the opertunity to discuss this change3 before it was made.Georgeryall 15:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

As per WP policy, we should use as our title the name the English-speaking world generally knows this food by. That is "shrimp cracker" or "prawn cracker." Badagnani 06:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

If you want to keep this article as Prawn Cracker, then write it as it is. Prawn Cracker is a cracker made by a shrimp. That's what it means. So don't tell about other crackers made by non-shrimps, such as vegetable, fish, etc. Krupuk/kropok is actually a cracker, and prawn cracker is not equal with cracker. It's just a type of cracker. — Indon (reply) — 07:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Aren't kropeks the Indonesian ones though? In the UK they are generally known via Cantonese.--Josquius 23:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Split or move?

As mentioned above this is obviously not an article about prawn crackers. It's an article about the broader class of fried crackers (krupuk) which includes prawn crackers.

There's no requirement to wait for consensus for correcting obvious errors, and krupuk is a better title for this article as written, so I will move it there now.

I suggest that if it's agreed that Prawn cracker (a subtype of krupuk) deserves it's own article of that name, someone can split off the specific prawn cracker material to a new article. Please don't move an article which is not primarily about prawn crackers back to that title. Thanks. --Chriswaterguy talk 02:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

"Prawn cracker" is a common term used for any cracker like this, whether it contains prawn or not. It's just a common word for it. JayKeaton (talk) 12:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

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Prawn cracker is not equal with Kerupuk/Keropok

Prawn cracker is one of Kerupuk(s), but not all Kerupuk(s) are made of prawns. It's also stated in the article that some crackers were made of fruits and vegetables. So it is factual error and mislead readers. I suggest to move the article into Kerupuk or more general acceptable name of it. — Indon (reply) — 13:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

that would make sense to me, as long as it was done in a way to preserve a description of the prawn cracker.Georgeryall 19:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Should we at least just generalize the title into, say Krupuk itself (considering that's the first term mentioned in the passage) ?

looking for reasons prawn crackers, papadams etc puff when deep fried

Added that. The "dough" is quite firm, almost rubebry. That way, the air will expand but not escape during frying. Dysmorodrepanis 14:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there are many variations to krupuk and prawn cracker is just a variation. The opening paragraph needs a fix to accommodate this. Wikislemur (talk) 06:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME

Wouldn't it be better to have the article at Shrimp cracker or Prawn cracker? I'm quite sure that Indonesia and Malaysia aren't the only countries that produce these crackers, and that the most commonly used name in English is Shrimp/Prawn cracker. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:40, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Nope..., I disagree. These type of crackers is specialty of Indonesia and to some extent Southeast Asia, and it is not always made from shrimp or fish, but from many other various ingredients. Yet it can not be under crackers article too since in english crackers tends to refer to biscuits. In Netherlands and most European country the name Kroepoek or Krupuk already known to refer this kind of crackers. (Gunkarta (talk) 14:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)).

The Suharto-era childhood name of Barry from DC is "Krupuk"

“First of all, thank you for the bakso, the nasi goreng, the emping, the krupuk." Barry from DC was known as "Krupuk" when he played in Suharto's mud streets and mosques while growing up in the homeland. Krupuk means "cracker" in Barry's native language. Later Barry from DC threw the first pitch for the Atlanta Crackers in an all-American baseball game. During the Suharto era, Barry from DC ate krupuk more than 365 times per year.

The primary name of the President of the United States of America, "Krupuk" has been censored from Wikipedia by the terrorists. Yet Obama promised to stop hiding the truth when he was elected. For example Krupuk, tried to cover up his Chrysler 300c right before the election. It was censored from Wikipedia. Yet Krupuk's Chrysler 300c remains a high importance Wikipedia article because "Pimp My Ride USA" wanted to feature the Obamamobile which was put up for sale for US1,000,000.00. The importance of this gas guzzler to Krupuk's way of life is so high that copies are prominently displayed at known US torture sites in Europe, for example. Torture is a heinous crime to which universal jurisdiction and severe penalties apply. And certain "European" elites have been caught illegally importing the krupuk and assorted Atlanta Crackers.

The childhood name of a public official known as the "Suharto of Globalistan" is worthy of its own Wikipedia article under "Krupuk." Or it can be merged with this article pointing out the various flavors of Atlanta Crackers and other krupuk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.77.171.227 (talk) 16:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

kerupuk emping?

There's no such thing as kerupuk emping,..... emping is emping and kerupuk is kerupuk --202.93.239.53 (talk) 07:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

new info Emping is part of kerupuk, you may not take note to my comment, because it's my original research WP:OR Ald™ ¬_¬™ 07:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Move

(cur | prev) 02:32, 27 February 2008‎ Chriswaterguy (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (3,805 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Prawn cracker to Krupuk over redirect: This is not an article about prawn crackers - it's an article about the broader class of fried crackers (krupuk) which includes prawn crackers. See talk page.) (undo)

There doesn't seem to have been sufficient consensus for this. This is the only prawn cracker article isn't it? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:22, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

yup, I also see almost whole of this article part only talk about prawn cracker. Actually a krupuk doesn't only made with prawn, for example.. in Malaysia, many krupuk made from fish. — иz нίpнόp ^ʜᴇʟᴘ! 10:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I see there was an earlier Prawn cracker to Krupuk move 6 June 2007 by Dysmodrepanis following rewrite of lede from Prawn crackers to Krupuk. Walmart.com has "shrimp chips" In ictu oculi (talk) 11:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Original prawn crackers photo 2006

File:Chinese-prawn-crackers-in-blue-bowl.jpg

Chinese prawn crackers in blue bowl c.2006 (still in use on German and Italian wp)

Seems like more of the move discussion above is a fork discussion. A strong possibility that this RM will end up with two articles (which I'm not totally convinced of, seeing as where do Malaysian keropok prawn crackers then belong for a start?). Whether it ends up being forked or not, all the illustrations currently are clearly Indonesian. Either restoring the original non-Indonesia photo, or having a more western-supermarket familiar photo might improve visual WP:WEIGHT. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:07, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I support restoring the previous version. Clearly the article became unbalanced. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. The common English name argument below is aligned with policy, especially when it is unclear which indigenous name is the more accurate. --regentspark (comment) 14:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Krupuk → Prawn cracker – Restore to 2008 title per WP:ASTONISH: in Google Books prawn + krupuk 498x results vs prawn + cracker 5,510x results. That is without counting minor variants such as "shrimp chips" (US) 2,360x results "prawn chips" "fish puffs" etc, which should be totalled up, but also without counting Keropok (Malaysian) wheras current title Krupuk is (Indonesian). Additionally current POV/FORK issues generated by the Indonesia-focussed title are messing up lede and reducing chances of this article improving content and sources. (no objection to 30% of the article being forked out to be specifically Indonesian). In ictu oculi (talk) 11:33, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Oppose Although most varieties are prawns based, that is not exclusively the case. The present article states that several times. So it is better to keep the title as it is, as it covers a wider range of krupuks than prawn crackers. The Banner talk 14:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Does anyone in English-speaking countries use this term? In Britain they're always called prawn crackers. And "krupuk" appears to be the term used in a single country, whereas this article covers all types. If necessary, this should be kept as an article on the Indonesian version and the rest moved to prawn cracker. -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:51, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support WP:UE use either shrimp chip or prawn cracker. Since these are commonly found in Hong Kong and Singapore, we should use Singapore English or Hong Kong English. WP:ENGVAR, the only two varieties of English that are of concern are HK and Singaporean. Only Singapore and Hong Kong officially use English in the region where this food is natively found. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 00:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
• Question And how would you suggest dealing with non-shrimp based examples? (As a side note, these are available in the US and Canada? Mrs Crisco will be pleased) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment do you mean shrimp chips; or non-shrimp versions? Shrimp chips are available in Chinatowns across North America (and as part of dishes served in restaurants) -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
    • Buying? Either is fine. She looked for 'em last time we went to Canada and couldn't find anything (although it was the lack of an Indonesian-style chili sauce which really got her; she thought the stuff available had too much vinegar) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
      • I doubt factory-made shrimp chips contain any shrimp beyond shrimp flavoring. 60% starch, 40% fish meal - that will be generic fish meal, shrimps are simply too expensive to mush up for crackers. One of the sources says "Prawn Crackers A similar process as that for making fish crackers is used, but 1985 regulations require that they contain a minimum of only 6.9% protein." However "fish crackers" appears to be a factory name not for Walmart, not for article title. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
      • If you're going to Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, it'd be very simple to find shrimp chips, though the variety available may not be to your liking. The large Chinatowns have it in many grocery stores. Most Chinatowns should have it, since it's part of several dishes, and Chinatowns have restaurants and grocery stores. Google [1] shows several choices for delivery as well. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 03:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
        • Shame my hometown is a bit small. To bring this discussion back to the topic at hand, are there any titles which would allow for non-shrimp crackers to be included naturally? Or perhaps a section entitled "other flavours"? As In ictu points out above, they aren't necessarily shrimp even if labeled so. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:48, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
          • You can get it in Detroit [2] if London/Hamilton/Niagara Falls is too far, and ordering online for postal delivery isn't good ; As for the name, "shrimp chips" (or "prawn crackers") still work, since the non-shrimp ones are a variant on the shrimp ones. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 04:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support rename, with a section that discusses non-shrimp-based chips in this style. The nom is correct, at least as far as my experience has taught me, that the shrimp flavour is dominant. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose english simply did not have a precise and exact name to describe this type of crackers (krupuk). Using the term "shrimp crackers" would be narrowing the category and unsufficient to describe this broad type of Southeast Asian crackers (how do you describe the non-shrimp variants?). Even the name shrimp crackers using the term crackers to describe krupuk could mislead it to associate it with biscuit, a type of baked goods of grain products. Western languages have lack vocabulary to identify crispy foods and tends to pull it all together in crackers category. Loaning words from other languages is common practice in many languages. Dutch already did it... kroepoek.Gunkarta (talk) 15:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Cecilia Leong-Salobir Food Culture in Colonial Asia 2011 p57 seems to suggest that "prawn crackers" was in use in colonial Singapore already in the 1920s. But with or without that Google Books shows dozens of Singaporean and Malaysia cookbooks referring to "prawn crackers," as do Lonely Planet, Frommers, Insight, guides to Singapore and Malaysia. So it isn't that English language didn't have a word for the crackers found in Singapore and Malaysia, it just is an English word rather than Malaysian. Also the Dutch word kroepoek is from Javanese isn't it? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:29, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Kroepoek is term used widely in colonial Indonesia (Dutch East Indies) founds in Javanese, Sundanese, Malay (Sumatran side, while in peninsula called keropok instead), other Indonesian local languages and adopted in Dutch too, this was happened before Indonesian language change its spelling from "oe" to "u". Today all local languages in Indonesia use krupuk, while Dutch retain its old colonial era spelling with oe. In Indonesia shrimp crackers only valid for one type of krupuk; krupuk udang (shrimp krupuk). If the article should be named to shrimp crackers all the non-shrimp variants should be separated into other aticle. This could led to separating shrimp crackers with krupuk. In Indonesian view krupuk is umbrella term, while krupuk udang (shrimp cracker) just one type of its myriad variants. This is typical problem on creating cross-cultural articles since each culture have their own version and oppinion regarding this type of crispy foodstuff.Gunkarta (talk) 11:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per Gunkarta. Shrimp/prawn is a very common flavoring in Asian snack chips/crackers, and this article seems to be about a particular type of snack. Unless products like this and this count as krupuk, "prawn cracker" is too broad a name for the article. --BDD (talk) 22:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment they why use the Indonesian form, instead of the Malaysian one? Indonesia was a Dutch colony, while Malaysia was a British one, so, if anything, English-language is more closely related to Malaysia, which still uses it in some contexts. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 05:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
    • Internationally krupuk (google 1,640,000 hits) is used widely than kropok (36,400 hits). Far richer krupuk variants can be found in Indonesia, while Malaysia have less variants of keropok (pretty much the same case with satay). Richer variants could suggest its place of origin, yet claim of origin of krupuk is obscure too, then it is save for us to conclude that it is Southeast Asian type of crackers, yet the same thing is popular in East Asia called in different name. Indonesian cuisine's krupuk also notably contribute its influence to Dutch too, where kroepoek is popular in the Netherlands until today, while kropok did not sucessfully made the same impact in its British counterpart. It is about influence and cultural impact, it has nothing to do with which one was British or Dutch colony.Gunkarta (talk) 11:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

@BDD. The first picture, a South Korean snack food Saeu kkang, which is both a brand of Nongshim and the Korean name for shrimp chips, is it appears in fact truly a prawn cracker, it is a snack with 40% fish-meal content and not just starch base with chemical shrimp flavour. The fact that it is stick-shaped and factory packaged wouldn't exclude it from the 2008 original form of this article. The problem here is that authentic Indonesian prawn crackers (which do deserve the authentic Indonesian name "krupuk") while coming chronologically first cannot possibly be more than a tiny fraction of fish/shrimp cracker production world wide. Most shrimp snacks in US, Italy, Germany, UK, France are evidently Chinese-style not Indonesian (look at online supermarkets). ...one way or another if Krupuk is really separately notable from generic prawn crackers/shrimp chips then to preserve article history isn't it the umbrella - prawn crackers, per original title, which should stay, and krupuk be forked out? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:57, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok, based on the previous form of the article, especially the picture in the section below, I would support the move. So I don't know where that leaves me. With the current scope, I'd stand by my position, but if it becomes more generally about prawn-flavored crackers, I can support. Changing the name without changing the scope seems like dumbing down. --BDD (talk) 16:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support restoration of the common English term, rather than a version of the dominant borrowed term. This ngram evidence shows how forms of "prawn cracker" dominate in the published literature. Sum the plural and the singular forms. (For simplicity I have omitted capitalisations and plurals that did not show up at all.) Noetica^Tea? 07:03, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support restoration of common English term. --Cold Season (talk) 11:56, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment Note that the term kroepoek (older spelling of krupuk) also has linguistic significance. A search of "kroepoek -prawn" to reduce "contamination" by cuisine subjects yields some results in the biological field. Leafs affected by leaf curl have been described to be "kroepoek-diseased", referring to the curling behavior that one observes when deep frying these crackers. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 23:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Australian or British?

In the intro, it says "prawn crackers" is Australian, but in the second paragraph of the second section is says "prawn cracker" is British English... 90.211.134.7 (talk) 17:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I would agree, the use of the word shrimp is usually only used for fishing bait in Australia, and prawn is used much more commonly, I have always known them as prawn crackers, or krupuk.--110.175.121.168 (talk) 07:21, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm from Australia and I've never heard them be called 'prawn crackers', only 'prawn chips'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.91.43 (talk) 14:20, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm also in Australia (Taree, NSW) , sitting here with a box of Prawn Crackers bought from the local supermarket, that I will be cooking shortly - I just hopped online to find out how they actually make the things and ended up on this page. I've never heard them referred to as prawn "chips". Quick check of local online menus, they are called Prawn Crackers. --MichaelGG (talk) 07:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Separated

Can the Malaysia section separated? I see this article are much more related about Prawn cracker, not Krupuk anymore as Malaysian traditional "keropok" are not made from prawn, but fish. — иz нίpнόp ^ʜᴇʟᴘ! 07:26, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I already separate it and try to update the Malaysia section for "prawn crackers" later. — иz нίpнόp ^ʜᴇʟᴘ! 08:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Dubious sentence

In the Netherlands, Suriname and Australia they are also widely available in general supermarkets.

I find this a rather dubious statement, not because I don't think it can be found in supermarkets in the countries mentioned, but because I think it highly unlikely that it wouldn't be generally available in supermarkets elsewhere. A sack kroepoek from my local supermarket contains ingredients and nutrition information in several languages, so it must be sold there. And I would be quite surprised if it can't be found in Asian supermarkets. The sentence above singles three countries out without good reason. Shinobu (talk) 23:15, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

>Three countries that are not in the originating continent but are easily available, showing the widespread distrubution and frequent consumption of Krupuk/prawn crackers?IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 04:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

>I can't talk for Suriname and Australia but Krupuk is widely available in Dutch supermarkets and toko's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.80.219.59 (talk) 07:14, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

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