Talk:President of Afghanistan

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Term Limits[edit]

What are Afghanistan's term limits, and when is the next election. Karzai has been there for what, five years now? Seems to me they ought to have an election coming up, but I don't see reference to it anywhere.Lexington1 (talk) 02:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC) i know somebody should take his position CFAsaber —Preceding unsigned comment added by CFAsaber (talk • contribs) 04:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2014 elections have taken place. Am unsure how to create Template:Afghan_presidential_election,_2014 for it from the section in Afghan_presidential_election,_2014. 204.89.57.225 (talk) 12:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

MR. Dr, Qar iwafiullah Naeemzi will be neext president of afghanistan in 2020 or in 2025 his attitude will be totaly changed from USA, he will make his counrty Independent as with Nuclear weapon against the America, his enthusiast will be Russia, China, Iran and especially Pakistan, Dr. Naeemzi won't at all compromise about ISLAM calture and his country, will be against those nations who tried to disgracing ISLAM and misleading the Afghan people.

You might want to consider editing this. I'd do it, but I'm in a bit of a rush. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.217.218 (talk) 18:28, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Abdullah Abdullah vs Ashraf Ghani[edit]

I've reverted the edit changing the president from Ashraf Ghani to Abdullah Abdullah. Although both of them have made their inauguration ceremonies [1][2] (suggesting some dispute), only Ghani occupies the presidential palace,[3] controls the government website [4] and is recognized by the United States [5]. So it looks like he is the president. – attomir (talk | contribs) 16:09, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2021[edit]

The office of President of The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is not vacant. Ghani is still President even in exile. 2600:1005:B021:20E8:10B9:DB8:E84D:2BA2 (talk) 18:17, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —Sirdog9002 (talk) 21:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2021[edit]

Gahni is still President of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan in exile. The office is not vacant and still recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. 2600:1005:B003:813E:BCBC:69E0:8542:ED8 (talk) 00:21, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:27, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

100% right. Even if the taliban appoints a president. This is the wrong page. This isn’t for the overall leader of Afghanistan, but the office of the president of the IRoA Real jtizzle (talk) 04:17, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Abolished or Vacant[edit]

Well, which is it? The office has been abolished or it still exists but is vacant. GoodDay (talk) 05:51, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remove "vacant" and "absent", note "the office of the President is not the de facto head of state of Afghanistan since the Taliban Offensive". Dege31 (talk) 11:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would support restoring Ashraf Ghani as President in this article. We have no RS that unambiguously indicate he has resigned the presidency of the IRoA. The Coordination Council (Afghanistan) appears to have been formed, in part, to secure his resignation. We should keep him listed as president until he either resigns or we have RS that indicate the IRoA is decimated and extinct. It's unclear at this point if the Taliban plan to deconstitute the IRoA or rule within the IRA constitutional structure. Chetsford (talk) 06:16, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Saleh/Ghani[edit]

He declared himself to be the legitimate caretaker president of Afghanistan on Twitter earlier today. This status has been reflected on his page; why does it still say vacant? - Attributed to an attribute (talk) 15:26, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Acting head of state (during illness, absence, etc.) is NOT the same as the actual head of state. Please do not add Saleh, as he has only claimed to be a "caretaker president". Legally, he remains a VP. — kashmīrī TALK 22:33, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, no, but he hasn't claimed to be acting, he's claimed to be president of a caretaker government, which is a full President. According to the Constitution, he'd become the full president, not just acting. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:38, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, my dear [6] — kashmīrī TALK 22:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, that tweet seems to support what I just said. It doesn't say anything about him being acting. He claimed to be a caretaker president, which, according to the Constitution, would replace the previous president as a full president. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:45, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't invent stuff [7]. — kashmīrī TALK 22:55, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not invented, my understanding was based on how secondary sources have described the situation. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:59, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also there is no "president of a government". Afghanistan's government is led by the prime minister; the president is of Afghanistan. — kashmīrī TALK 22:43, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kashmiri: Please show me a reliable, secondary source that says Ghani is still president. It's not our job to interpret the Constitution and determine who "should" be president, as you're suggesting. We go by what RS say. You're adding unreferenced content in the face of a mountain of evidence that Ghani was ousted [8], [9]. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:33, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Show me that his legal status has changed. And please keep in mind that acting heads of state (interim heads of state) are not "full" heads of state. An official acting in Queen Elizabeth's absence in the UK doesn't become King. — kashmīrī TALK 22:40, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, right, but Saleh hasn't claimed to be acting, he's claimed to be a caretaker president. There is a legal distinction. According to the Constitution, he'd become a full president. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You will need good sources for that, especially that both Saleh's tweet [10] and Article 67 of the Constitution of Afghanistan [11] say otherwise. — kashmīrī TALK 22:44, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, I've read the tweet several times over, still don't see the word "acting" in it. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:47, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Read the constitution now. — kashmīrī TALK 22:50, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, looks like you are correct about that. I would still like to discuss Ghani. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:55, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, we can use the infobox's "acting" parameter for Saleh. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:58, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He is acting (i.e., ad interim), i.e., he's carrying out some of the presidential duties for a maximum of 3 months when a new president should be elected. He is not a party to a dispute. If Ghani returns, Saleh will have to hand the duties back to him. — kashmīrī TALK 23:10, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, yes, and that's what the acting parameter is for. See Template:Infobox official post/doc. We don't have to say he's party to a dispute with Ghani. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:12, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, show me that his legal status has changed: CNN calls him the "former president", WaPo says he "departed power". You're the one who hasn't provided anything other than primary sources here. Wikipedia describes things as they are, not as they're "supposed" to be. It's not our job to interpret laws and try to impose our own scholarly opinions on the situation. The real world is messy. ― Tartan357 Talk 22:54, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We don't list people as presidents, kings, etc., just because they were announced as such by a news station. Yes, we do check for legal status. One key aspect, for example, is international recognition (read the discussion at Juan Guaidó for example).
Apart from a tweet and a few media outlets reporting on the tweet, there is not much else to Saleh's claim. People are free to post things on their social media profiles, media can report on it, but we at Wikipedia are much more careful when publishing information, especially of such political weight. Otherwise we'd now have to list two presidents of the United States, lol. — kashmīrī TALK 22:59, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Can you cite a guideline for that? We can include anything that has been reported by RS. In this case, we can note it is a claim with limited recognition. And I don't think the thing about POTUS is true. Newsmax and OAN are not reliable sources. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:02, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, Reuters is pretty good [12]. Let's add Saleh as a claimant with the "acting" parameter in the infobox. We can note the limited recognition. As you have said yourself, there is constitutional merit to his claim. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not against it in principle, other than having a doubt about Ghani's status. Art. 67 does not mention exile, against what Saleh claims. So, given that Ghani is still alive and sound, just on an "unscheduled trip abroad", Saleh's claims might not have a strong legal standing while Ghani may still claim to be the president, however unlikely it is to be. I'd wait for a few days before making changes, the situation should become clearer by this weekend. — kashmīrī TALK 23:19, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, whether they have legal standing or not, he's a VP who's made a claim to the job, and RS have picked it up. I think sources say Ghani is gone, but I'm happy to compromise and describe it as a dispute between Ghani and Saleh (acting) until the dust settles. Saleh is currently organizing a resistance movement, so I think it's important that we at least include his claim, even if we note it's not widely recognized. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:24, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:NOTNEWS, we have no duty to report on all news, especially when they are obviously not based on sound reporting. Saleh is not the President of Afghanistan and is unlikely to be one in the foreseeable future, I also haven't seen sources that would claim he is in dispute with Ghani. All in all, I don't understand your insistence on sticking his name somewhere into this article. — kashmīrī TALK 23:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, it's highly relevant encyclopedic information. It's not "news", it's trying to state who the current occupant of the office, which is the subject of this article, is. I don't understand your insistence on keeping it out, even when I'm willing to leave Ghani in. Sourcing for issues such as this is quite complicated, and we're unlikely to see sources spelling out how we should have our infobox in the near future. Per WP:RSP, Reuters does do sound reporting. You'll need to go to WP:RSN to change that. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:46, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It seems you are unable to understand that an acting president is not same as president. See, this is not an article about Afghani leaders or heads of state but about the well-defined constitutional post of the President of Afghanistan. Saleh remains the First Vice President, even when temporarily acting as President in his absence. — kashmīrī TALK 00:00, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, no I conceded that already. And I said we'd use the infobox's "acting" parameter. ― Tartan357 Talk 00:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The available reporting does not call Saleh, the president. Media only reported on his tweet (which is not an official decree of the presidency!). Please keep in mind that routine news reporting of announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia. — kashmīrī TALK 00:02, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, I already told you, we can note the limited recognition. But it's a claim by the person who's next in the line of succession. We're trying to determine who the president is, this is not a matter of including unencyclopedic "announcements". Also, you seem to be getting a little heated, e.g. it seems you are unable to understand. Might be time to review WP:COOL and take a break. I'll be here later. ― Tartan357 Talk 00:09, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, there is no concept of succession in the 2004 Constitution. There is only the concept of an interim president, having limited powers, until next elections. Please stop. — kashmīrī TALK 08:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri, I will note, to your point, that the U.S. State Department has not ruled out continuing to recognize Ghani, so there is still some ambiguity here [13]. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:37, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Tartan357: I think we can say with fair certitude that Ashraf Ghani is no longer the President of Afghanistan: he abandoned its post and, according to the 2004 Constitution of Afghanistan, a President who flees the country loses its post.

The problem is: who is the President now? Legally speaking, Saleh is correct: according to the Constitution, if the President flees, his post passes to the First Vice President, and that means Saleh. So yeah, legally speaking, he is the President. I mean, a conclusive answer can only be delivered by the Supreme Court of Afghanistan, which is no longer active. But technically he is correct.-Karma1998 (talk) 23:28, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Karma1998, I agree with you. I'm willing to list Ghani for now, as well, in the spirit of compromise. But Saleh should be in there. And the Taliban haven't even claimed the presidency (yet), so their guy definitely shouldn't be in this article. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Tartan357: Well, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (as the name suggests) is led by an Emir, so I don't think the Taliban will claim the title of "President".-Karma1998 (talk) 23:38, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Karma1998, it's been rumored that they might name Abdul Ghani Baradar President [14], albeit not by the best of sources. So it's a possibility. But you're right, for now, the emir belongs at List of heads of state of Afghanistan, not here. ― Tartan357 Talk 23:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. Saleh is interim president who has limited powers and has to call presidential elections within 3 months. He certainly does not have all presidential powers and is thus not within the scope of this article. — kashmīrī TALK 08:41, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh.....what a mess. This article & all related articles are completely inconsistent with each other :( GoodDay (talk) 01:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I assume that all sources are in agreement, that Afghanistan is going to remain a republic & isn't going to restore the monarchy. GoodDay (talk) 01:24, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you assume that? The Taliban government of 96–2001 was an emirate, which is a kind of monarchy. ― Tartan357 Talk 01:32, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking of the monarchy that was abolished in 1973. GoodDay (talk) 01:36, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@GoodDay: I think the Emirate is more similar to a theocratic monarchy (like the Vatican City) than to the traditional Kingdom of Afghanistan.-Karma1998 (talk)

Office not abolished[edit]

Office is not abolished as the world still recognizes the Islamic Republix, as well as the UN. Amrullah Saleh is the acting President, and it makes no sense to delete this as recently the NRF's forces have recaptured several districts in Afghanistan, some outside of Panjshir such as Andarab. Whoever made these changes Is not well informed on the news. I am also going to see what I can manage to learn if I have the chance to speak with Ali Maisam Nazary. PanjshirLions (talk) 04:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On September 9, the NRF announced that a parallel government will be created in response to the Taliban's formation of its governement in Kabul.[1] It was announced on September 29 that Amrullah Saleh will lead the government in exile, according to a statement published by the Afghan Embassy in Geneva, Switzerland, which also backs the NRF.<ref>https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/afghanistan-amrullah-saleh-government-exile-taliban-1858811-2021-09-29 PanjshirLions (talk) 04:27, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.deccanherald.com/international/panjshir-resistance-to-declare-parallel-govt-in-afghanistan-1028581.html
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