Talk:Princess Argjiro

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Greek tradition?[edit]

@Alexikoua: You insist on adding a greek tradition to article. Your source doesn't mention any greek tradition so please find some other sources. As for your claim, it's true the source is a greek one but this doesn't make it a greek tradition.NobleFrog (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a tradition preserved in the Greek language in a region which Greek communities also reside (with written accounts in this language from at least the 19th century). That's stated in the inlines. Care to check?Alexikoua (talk) 19:06, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua: Your source says: The united and impartible region of Epirus was bisected after the Protocol of Florence (17/12/1913) and the Northern part was awarded by the Great Powers to the newly formed state of Albania so it would become viable. The South part remained to Greece. That was the outbreak of the North Epirus issue, a violent development of the Epirus matter. Afterwards, a series of occupations and liberations by the Greek army at the North Epirus regions followed. You need neutral sources,not this.NobleFrog (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What makes this non-neutral? Academic works are the best we can have here, per wp:HISTRS. I suggest you follow that too.Alexikoua (talk) 19:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A neutral editor for example would have noticed that "Ndryshe" isn't the best we can have under HISTRS.Alexikoua (talk) 19:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua: What does "Ndryshe" means?NobleFrog (talk) 19:26, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ndryshe.Alexikoua (talk) 19:28, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua: Your source isn't neutral as it says Epirus was an impartible region and "a series of occupations and liberations by the Greek army at the North Epirus regions followed".This is a typical POV.Please find other sources.NobleFrog (talk) 19:32, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would be a non-neutral source if it had claimed Epirus as an "impartible Greek region", also how can a source become pov because it mentions the "occupations & liberations by the Greek Army"?Alexikoua (talk) 19:38, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes,it considers Epirus as an "impartible Greek region". According to your source Epirus was a part of Greece and was impartable.NobleFrog (talk) 19:42, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As the source isn't neutral and it seems its claim is POV I'm deleting the Greek tradition.NobleFrog (talk) 18:12, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't thing so, as you noticed is says "impartible region" without the word Greek. Actually before 1912 it belonged to one state (Ottoman Empire), that's why it was impartible since that year. By the way I can't see a decent source stating that it was an Albanian tradition. You don't believe that newspapers are the best of sources for such a topic?Alexikoua (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

They way its written is fine now. The Argjiro tradition is common amongst the Albanian and Greeks speaking peoples of the area. Guys seriously, move on to something else that is really in need of quality edits and attention.Resnjari (talk) 19:19, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is still no decent citation about the Albanian tradition, apart from cheap travel guides and newspapers of questioned reliability.Alexikoua (talk) 13:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I placed a NGO link to the Albanian tradition that deals with the conservation of Gjirokaster's old buildings. I will say to you to please refrain from calling sources "cheap", even if they are not to your liking. That is not going about thing is good faith.Resnjari (talk) 00:54, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alexikoua:The Greek tradition isn't supported by reliable sources. Your source says clearly:"Epirus is an impartible Greek region". Find another source or delete the Greek tradition by yourself. As for the Albanian tradition, I don't see one in this article. To Resnjari:"I'm not a Greek or Albanian editor so I'm not much interested in moving on another article.NobleFrog (talk) 16:50, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No it doesn't ("impartible region", not "impartible Greek region"). Recycling the same nonsense can be disruptive.Alexikoua (talk) 19:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's weird you declare being non-Greek&Albanian. All available references are either in Greek or Albanian. Nevertheless it's the Greek reference you are eager to remove.Alexikoua (talk) 20:14, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from accusations of editors Alexikoua.Resnjari (talk) 00:54, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Resnari: You need to follow wp:what wikipedia is. The idea of a national crusade is something you need to avoid (defending sockpuppet/banned accouts because they are your co-nationals).Alexikoua (talk) 12:50, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Like i said, you need to refrain from accusations. By the way who is a "sockpuppet" and what is this about a "national crusade" ? Please stick to the sources in guiding the conversation. Thank you.Resnjari (talk) 12:53, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Care to add at least one decent reference about the impact of this legend on Albanian folklore?. I assume a travel guide isn't the best reference. Maybe Mitko's collection might say something?Alexikoua (talk) 13:18, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding impact, the influence it has had on people like Kadare, a native of Gjrokaster is noted in the article. I added in a peer reviewed journal article from a Western journal disucssing Gjrokaster architecture. In it was a mention about local views regarding the legend and its link to Gjrokaster. As for what you consider to be a tourist website regarding the link, is if you go through it a NGO website that is involved in preserving Gjirokaster architecture.Resnjari (talk) 22:48, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Nevertheless it's the Greek reference you are eager to remove". What does this mean? You should refrain from your useless accusations. Your source is a nationalist one and can't stay. Why don't you find another source if your claims are well-supported?NobleFrog (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You need to provide a decent argument to claim that. So far you haven't. Also attacking top-graded reference for your own national taste isn't constructive.Alexikoua (talk) 14:43, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The only unconstructive thing here is your nationalist source. It says that "N. Epirus was given to Albania so it could become capable of working successfully" and "The united and impartible region of Epirus was divided and only the South part remained to Greece". Albania would work successfully with or without N.Epirus. Using these sources only tells who you are. I know that this legend is part of the Albanian and the Greek mythology (tradition) as the article says. The only problem is the source you want to use. Why don't you support this Greek tradition with other sources? NobleFrog (talk) 20:43, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yet another wave of childish accusations. What about you start follow wp:What wikipedia is? Alexikoua (talk) 06:47, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As you can't find a real source I'm going to tag that hoping someone will help.NobleFrog (talk) 13:42, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As you can't explain what makes this reference non-academic per wp:HISTRS, I've removed this tag. You need to provide a decent explanation. In case you still can't understand the meaning of wp:RS you can still ask for input in wp:RSN Alexikoua (talk) 15:53, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It lacks citation and is a nationalist source. I have explained you why it is nationalist but you don't want to accept that fact.NobleFrog (talk) 16:13, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's fully cited (page, author, academic institution etc). Unfortunately for you it's not a nationalist source, due to the fact that Epirus was an impartible region before 1912 indeed.Alexikoua (talk) 17:43, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your source doesn't say "Greek" tradition but "local" tradition.NobleFrog (talk) 19:08, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Politis' work is titled "Traditions of the Greek people". Politis and Krystallis mention that this was a widerspread folktale in all of Epirus to Arta south. Babiniotis mentions this folktale as part of his Greek dictionary. Definitely it is a Greek folktale too and the story is completely diferrent than the Albanian version. Get used to it.Alexikoua (talk) 19:49, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alexikoua, you wrote "Gianno of Gianna" is Gianna, Ioannina ?Resnjari (talk) 02:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Politis/Georgitsis doesn't explain where's Gianna and if Gianna can be identified with a real settlement. I'll check if there is a town/village in Epirus close to that name.Alexikoua (talk) 09:58, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. Because i wasn't sure about adding Ioannina in.Resnjari (talk) 12:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your source says that tradiotion belongs to local people, to locals of Epirus. The local people of Epirus include Greeks, Albanians and if I'm not wrong Vlachs. So your "Greek" tradition is refuted by your source. And please stop your OR.NobleFrog (talk) 14:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see this is all you can do so I'm removing the "Greek" tradition. Hope you find another Greek tradition.NobleFrog (talk) 18:29, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've already explained why there is a Greek tradition.Alexikoua (talk) 20:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where? Your source speaks about a local tradition of Epirus, not a Greek tradition. The local population of Epirus includes Albanians, Greeks and if I'm not wrong Vlachs and Turks.NobleFrog (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I've said: Politis' work is titled "Traditions of the Greek people". Politis and Krystallis mention that this was a widerspread folktale in all of Epirus to Arta south. Babiniotis mentions this folktale as part of his Greek dictionary. Definitely it is a Greek folktale too and the story is completely diferrent than the Albanian version. Get used to it. And also Giannakou mentions this folktale as part of the Northern Epirus issue, which concerns the local Greek population.Alexikoua (talk) 20:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any Babinotis in the article. Politis and Krystallis mention that this was a widerspread folktale in all of Epirus to Arta south, it means it is a local tradition which belongs to all people of Epirus, Albanians, Greeks, Vlachs, Turks and whoever lives in that region. You insist on refuting yourself. Find Babinotis please, so we can explain in the article that it is a local tradition, possibly of Greek origin.NobleFrog (talk) 21:02, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Politis work is called "Traditions of the Greek people" it concerns exactly that.Alexikoua (talk) 21:38, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]