Talk:Pug/GA3

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs) 13:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to take on this review and will make a detailed study of the article shortly. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First reading[edit]

It should not be necessary to have citations in the lead section as the lead is supposed to be a summary of the rest of the article, and the citations should be in the body of the text.
The first paragraph in the "Physical characteristics" section is partly in the singular and partly the plural.
"Breeding preference goes to "button" style ears." Do you mean that the breed standard advocates "button" ears?
"... meeting in an under-bite." - You probably mean "resulting" as they obviously don't meet!
"Later, the pug travelled to Japan, and finally Europe." - The meaning of this sentence is apparent but it does sound rather as if a single dog was going on tour.
"During this period, the pug may have been involved in breeding with ..." - perhaps this should read "may have bred with ..."
"... up front with the coachman on private carriages, dressed in matching jackets and pantaloons." - Perhaps "up front on private carriages, dressed in jackets and pantaloons that matched those of the coachman."
"Ear cropping was outlawed in 1895." - "was made illegal"
"Since pugs lack longer snouts ..." - might be better as "Since pugs have short snouts ..."
"Pugs who live a mostly sedentary life ..." I think "that" or "which" would be better
In the section "Common conditions", the first paragraph does not have a reference at the end. Perhaps you could rephrase the paragraph so that all the sentences are fully supported by the sources mentioned.
"Pugs are one of several breeds that are more susceptible to demodectic mange," - more susceptible than what?
"This condition is caused by a weakened immune system" - not so. It is caused by mange mites.
"Pugs have many wrinkles in their faces, so owners may often clean inside the creases to avoid irritation and infection." - This contradicts an image caption which says "Proper care of the wrinkles is important."
Though responsible breeders might refrain from breeding from a dog with this condition, I don't see that fact mentioned in the reference cited.
"Cheeka is a famous pug who appeared in the "You & I" advertising campaign of Hutch's cellular phone service, Vodafone, in India." - This sentence is unreferenced and its meaning (the mention of Vodafone) is unclear.
"In addition, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor have doted on the pug dogs they have kept." - I think the verbs needs to be in a different tense.
Be consistent in your use of British English or American English (have a look at the image captions)
References 12, 20 and 43 want attention.

I see that this article was a GA previously but at some stage, for a reason not known to me, lost that status. That's all for now. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:29, 1 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That was me - I was the original nominator and the person who worked the article up in the first place. Unfortunatly my earlier GA work, this included, wasn't great on the reliable source front and so I didn't want it to stay at GA and have new editors see the sourcing and think that they could use the same sources. So I reduced it in status. Miyagawa (talk) 10:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the explanation. I shall need to consider the sourcing further. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:19, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone. I nominated this article following a copy edit I did for the Guild of Copy Editors, since it was tagged as needing one. It seemed to tick all the boxes for me afterwards, so I went ahead and nominated it. The major query seems to be the references, doesn't it. I've just taken what you might call a financial auditing approach and randomly chosen ten references to check (using a random walk with a coin !!) They were: 49, 10, 31, 8, 16, 21, 11, 38, 46 and 40. The first six seem fine: though I have adjusted the sentence describing the cause of hermivertebrae to reflect reference 39 a little more accurately and in a little more detail. 11 and 46 I can't check since I don't have these sources. 38 and 40 are both fine and say what they claim to say. All the web sites I was directed to seemed to be reliable, secondary sources of information. I've found a reference to the Vodafone India advertising campaign in the Economic Times, an Indian financial newspaper in English, and put it in, along with the alterations you suggest.

I'll go through the other points you make, Cwmhiraeth, and just be bold.

I've looked at a copy of the article prior to my copy edit and will assume American English. There was one 'travelled' but no other common words underlined in red, and a section heading using 'color', as does a figure caption, as you rightly point out. British English probably mine. Apologies. Richard asr (talk) 11:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adjusted 'travelled' and 'favoured' to 'traveled' and 'favored'; 'quitted' is inside a quotation and so shouldn't be altered. All else is now in American spelling. The dead link to Hogarth's painting at the Tate Gallery, reference 12, is live again - I think they revamped their website last year. I've removed reference 20 because it is redundant; a very authoritative reference 19 supports the same statement. Reference 43 is now formatted correctly, I hope. Richard asr (talk) 12:46, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor ambiguity is my fault entirely; I misunderstood the sentence - I thought it meant the current Duke and Duchess. I hope I've corrected that now. Red face and apologies. Alterations made to section 'Health Problems' as advised. Some of the earlier sections seem alright to me, so I'll leave it to you to alter them as you wish, which you are perfectly at liberty to do, as the GA reviewer. I like to try to retain the main author's 'voice' if possible. 'The lower teeth normally protrude further than their upper, meeting in an under-bite.' seems perfectly clear to me, and to most readers I would assume. The molars meet, resulting in a misalignment of the incisors. This is all the main author's voice, and in my opinion should be retained. Richard asr (talk) 15:46, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've just read the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section and there is no prohibition on references in the lead. It just says: '... editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material.' Even the Manual of Style article itself has references in the lead section. Richard asr (talk) 16:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That looks better. You have dealt with most of the problems I raised and I have made a few small changes. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Criteria[edit]

1a The article is well written
1b The article conforms with the MOS guidelines and most of the points I raised above have been dealt with.
2a&b The article is well referenced and has inline citations for all contentious statements.
2c There is no original research as far as I can see.
3a&b The coverage is broad enough and the article does not include irrelevant material.
4 The article is neutral
5 The article was copy edited earlier in the year by the nominator and there has been no recent edit warring.
6 Some of the images are in the public domain having been created over one hundred years ago. Others are suitably licensed.
7 The images are relevant to the topic and have suitable captions. I particularly liked "Pugs may become overweight."
Overall assessment - Pass.