Talk:Pwn/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Archival content

Rough consensus to keep as is. VfD notice removed. Deletion debate archived below. -- Cecropia 01:32, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) --

--

Overwrought dictionary definition of a gamer culture in-joke. Rebrane 08:40, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)
Redirect to Leet -- Cyrius|&#9998 12:06, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Add links to Cant, Jargon, Argot & Leet. --Davout 13:39, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Redirect to Leet. Exploding Boy 13:43, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)
Keep for now. It's not strictly a part of Leet language. --Johnleemk 14:06, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Merge with Leet and redirect. Oddly, this article makes it look like Leet is a subtopic of Pwn... Fredrik 15:57, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- More elaborate motivation why this does not need its own article: Pwn is already covered quite well in Leet (including meaning and origin). The few things that are missing can be added easily. The note of being subject to flame wars is absolutely unimportant, since flamewars on obscure Internet forums erupt all the time, about all kinds of subjects. What remains is a description of what Leet is, and that is, well, redundant.Fredrik 00:39, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Everyking 00:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Redirect. - Fennec 00:47, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep, entertaining and well-written, and a rather more detailed writeup than that of any of the other words described in the Leet article. --Stormie 01:50, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)
Redirect to Leet. -Sean 20:01, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep. It's pretty good. Pteron 22:12, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Keep. Cribcage 05:37, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Jeffy 15:39, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Fredrik is right, we should merge this with Leet, but keep the article and put a link to it on leet

I understand that the deletion debate has already occurred, but I wanted to stress that I believe this article should be kept as-is (seperate from Leet). The word is distinctly different, though used by the same culture. On DavisWiki.org I was able to provide this link as an explaination of the term, which would have otherwise gone misunderstood or lost in the sea of Leet. Leet is also more hax0r-culture than gamer culture, which pwned is. --Philip Neustrom

VERY similar to the free dictionary definition http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Pwn3d Chicken or the egg? Metastable 23:52, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The fine print at the bottom of that says they got it from here. Goplat 23:52, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

They get everything from here...Dustin Asby 07:53, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Under Etymology, the simple-typo theory (certainly the only seriously-held theory in my speech community) is listed twice. That's odd. Also, I would propose that "chizzown" comes from "chown" (which comes from the general proliferation of words that end in "own", with some help from unix), by way of the same process that leads to "bizznatches" in the "hizzouse"; the gratuitous insertion of 'z' and necessary vowels, from black English. I decline to edit this myself, since I'm hesitant about the potential for controversy in tracing etymology without extensive research. --jholman 12:06, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

zwn

I removed the "rhymes with zwn" from pronunciation. Google and Dictionary.com have nothing on zwn as a word. It's not a very helpful pronunciation guide if there's no indication how to pronounce zwn.—Rory ☺ 00:07, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

I totally agree wit this point and in general, I really like this article. I think that this is the kind of thing that makes wikipedia really good. It is clearly documenting and explaining generic information that will take years to make it into any written encyclopedia. --Jpittman 15:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You've not only been pwned, you've been zwned! :) Rickyrab 00:20, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC) (signed after I logged in)

In usage by gamers, I have seen several sightings of the use of 'zwned' in MMROPG's, referring to the tactic of changing between game maps or 'zones' to escape or avoid player-vs-player combat. I am hesitant to add this usage though without more research or support from other writers first. -- Anon

I also believe the pronounciation "pawn" or "paun" should be removed. When is the last time a 'W' has made an 'ah' sound? -- Dustin

Well, the pronunciation of W is "wuh", which is a short A sound. Pronounced exactly by the letter, pwn is "p-wahned", and if you say it fast enough it becomes "pawned" (not "puh-ahned").
How is "wuh" a short A sound? I say it should rhyme with OWN because that is precisely what word it came from. At worst, "pwun". anon 71.87.113.191 11:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Since when was English pronunciation rational? The letter R is pronounced "ister" in the word "Mr". (And here in the English-English-speaking world, "pawn" does not have an "ah" sound.) The question is, how do people who use "pwn" pronounce it? --121.72.83.151 03:50, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

puh-OWN. Or at least I do. I've never heard any variation on this. 76.180.120.161 03:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Warcraft

"Finally, one other story reports that in the game Starcraft (Alternatively Warcraft), [...]"

I removed the "(Alternatively Warcraft)" part. Does this mean the story is also told of Warcraft? Or that Warcraft is an alternative name for Starcraft (not true but seemingly implied)?

I heard the same story about Warcraft. Two entries on UrbanDictionary seem to agree. More Googling seems to suggest this too, it also confirms that pwn was used before this. Philip Nilsson 20:08, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've put it back in. —Rory ☺ 20:53, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)

The most common theory that I've heard is pwn originating from a War Craft map. I've never heard of it coming from Star Craft. Are you sure you have that right? Phoenix Hacker

Since the specific game mentioned seems to be a subject of off-and-on edit wars, I've decided to change the story to acknowledge the fact that various people claim that the game in question is Warcraft, Warcraft II, or Starcraft. My personal belief is the most likely candidate is WC2, because custom maps for the original WC were very rare (WC2 was the first game in the series to include a map editor) and I think "pwn" existed before "Starcraft" came out. But without any evidence actually confirming or refuting any of these, I think we should acknowledge all three possibilities. Colin M. 02:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Also, Pwnage comes in many forms. you can Pwn, or Pown on a game, but usually an online game. most used in Counterstrike and the word PWN is affiliated to the word Noob, or n00b or Nub or just plain suckage in any online game.

I remember seeing 'pwned' as a typo in original Warcraft. If I recall correctly, it appeared at the bottom of the screen when you beat a certain level or something. It became popular because it was a typo that Blizzard missed. I'll have to go back and play it again to see if I can find it. Waterboy matt 06:20, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

If you can get a screenshot of this, or better a video capture, that would be enough evidence. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2006-03-3 06:22

No, this constitutes original research. PStrait 03:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that would constitute original research, as it would be widely available information that anyone can find with a minimum of effort. WoW becomes, then, a source which can be cited with the photograph. That's what I think. David 05:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Providing the image can be found and cited, it's valid. Heliomance 18:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

cleanup

Added {{cleanup}} as the additions of more and more etymology and variations are making a quite good article less so. mordemur 12:03, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pooned

Recently on the MMORPG Runescape I have seen it often used in the form "Pooned", and even more recent I even saw it on the MMORPG Rose Online. This could just be a small group of people originated in Runescape, or even a completely different word in it's own, so rather than edit yet I'm wondering if anyone else has seen evidence of this? Jimbobsween 04:42, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

I've use pooned/pooning/poonage and I've never played those games and, in fact, don't personally know anyone who has so I can't really comment on it's meaning for those communities. I just use it because that's how I pronounce pwnd when talking IRL.

Also, on the Kingdom of Loathing radio show 120 Minutes With Jick and Mr. Skullhead, "pooned" is used quite often. This is where I picked up the habit of pronouncing it. This seems to be a web RPG thing. --Eventide 13:44, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Ive seen this word many times. On Halo, Runescape, Gunbound, and many more. I think its just people that decide that poon looks way cooler than pwn. --TenThousandFists25 March 2006

Poon is not related to pwn. It was an early MMORPG word for a player, or player character, to indicate there's nothing particularly special about that person (you could easily pwn a poon). It's not connected with the word toon either, as it seemed to emerge from Asian-influenced games. It may have its origins in an Asian language. The first players I saw using poon were PvPers. "Pooned" would most likely be a corruption of pwn and poon, due to someone misunderstanding the use of poon. Tale 22:38, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Poon is popular in Runescape because Jagex has a nazi chat filter that blocks "pw". 216.61.238.76 04:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Reference for the omniscient Weyes

This is a pure waste of my time, but okay, since there are people who don't know what Google is:

Pwn3d 38 300 results. Just an example of what you've been removing. E|t
Al Capwned
- It's been used 174 times in total, or hardly at all. --W(t)
Post-Pwned
- Lots of hits for someone with the nickname post-pwned and a couple of posts that are pwned. --W(t)
Pwnz0r
- Exactly 11 unique hits. --W(t)
Tehpwnzor
- 174 hits, nearly all for people with that username. --W(t)
Pwnt

N00bzorz:another newbie way of saying n00bzzzz

- None of these seem to have anything to do with the word in this context. --W(t)
  - Yeah. You're right. I'm pretty sure you checked all 26 000+ results too (irony). Anyway, that just about rendered your argument useless. E|t
Pizwn3d
- 4 hits. --W(t)
WTFpwned 7 040 hits

Look, I don't have time, nor will to list up ever single one of them. Use Google. Google is your friend. And stop reverting. This is a good dictionary for words like these: Qwned EliasAlucard|Talk 16:22, 16 Jun, 2005 (UTC)

Urban dictionary is a terrible source since every possible neologism is added to it by people wanting to push "their" word. --W(t) 14:33, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)

Bad argument. You think pwn is a real word? It's as much fake as any other word people are "pushing in the urban" dictionary, and the derivate words in this article. Words such as pwnz0r are pretty standard. I'm reverting back now. If you cannot prove that the usage of these words do not occur, then stop reverting. These derivate words aren't supposed to be established standards in the gaming vernacular. That's the reason why there are such few hits on some of them. Stop reverting. You're destroying the article when you're removing knowledge from it.

Even Micro$oft has acknowledged the existence of the derivative word pwn3d which you so brilliantly removed [1]. So far, I've given a lot more proof about you being wrong. So I'm asking you kindly: stop reverting.

EliasAlucard|Talk 17:10, 16 Jun, 2005 (UTC)

OMGWTFBBQ! :) — Rickyrab | Talk 02:09, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I hardly think that "pwn3d" counts as a derivative word, since it's just a, er, normal word fed through a leetspeak filter to change the 'e' into a '3'. As for the rest of that list, it's really starting to get ridiculous. Most of those words simply aren't commonly used (and in many cases, not even remotely so) in the parlance of the culture which spawned the word "pwn". See Wikipedia:Neologism. --Dachannien 21:03, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I also think the list of derivative words is a bit ridiculous. Some derivative that is used a couple times on some internet forum is not encyclopedic knowledge. In particular, I've commented out "tehpwnzriate", "klwned", "paedwned", "oregapwned", "owntehpwnsord", as I couldn't find any google hits for it that weren't Wikipedia and clones. Wikipedia isn't the place for original research. If anyone wants to find a suitable third-party reference for any of these, feel free to add them back. Other words I found dubious: pwnaggio (1 non-Wikipedia hit), chizowned (1 hit), and pwnacity (2 hits). Colin M. 22:27, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Also, "modus pwnened" gets no non-wikipedia hits on Google; the variant "modus pwnens" does get hits that all seem to be some guy's username on Slashdot and other web forums. Colin M. 00:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

RfC

I see there's a request for an RfC, could both parties give some explanation of the issue? Please be brief! Dan100 (Talk) 20:35, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Pwned as a contraction

It is my understanding that the word "pwned" is a constraction of "owned" and ":p" which is a smiley wiggling his tongue at someone. I saw the word ":pwned" before "pwned" in online FPS.

I've never heard that before, myself. - Stoph 03:07, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

It is my dog's understanding that some burglars accidentally leave their pizza behind after they have robbed me. --Tysto 03:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

No way. I heard this term used in the hacker/cracking scene WAY before smileys were commonplace.

As the article already the 'pwn' was probably the product of someone mistyping 'own', which seems likely given that O and P are right next to each other on the keyboard. So I highly doubt your you explanation. --DuO 07:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Tyso. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.223.240 (talk) 11:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The last edit

removing all that info is ridiculous. Why is it misinformation? because you said so? Lockeownzj00 17:42, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

rv'ed the section. Just because it's 'not supported by evidence' is not a reason to delete a whole section. If such a section should be deleted, further motivation should be given on the talk page.

Husky 23:12, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Non-notable puns, variants, etc

There were quite a lot of non-notable puns and variants that I removed. As with LOL, the smilies or any other neologism, this article risks turning into a running archive of every "word I just invented" or "word I just heard my best friend use" to cross a computer screen. In order to avoid that, we need to keep a close eye on how wide-spread each version is, and in many cases, how different versions can be collapsed into a rule (e.g. "pwn variant" + "hax0r variant" = "pwnzer", "pwnzor", "pwnz0r", "pwnx0r", etc., etc. There is no need to list the variants if we understand the rule). -Harmil 16:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Good work Harmil. With just a little bit more work we could remove the 'cleaned up' message in the future

Husky 19:13, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

vandalism

someone revert plz --Skuld^‡ ^insult 19:14, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

WHAT PWNED REALLY MEANS

IDK how this got out of hand...PWNED MEANS EXACTLY THE FOLLOWING...ever since CS came out in 1999

IT means: Powerfuly Owned

                 P - owerfuly + (owned-o) = PWNED

NOw dont disagree with me, i have been playign cs before people who run around shouting "I OWN YOU"!

And kiddies, this game is rated 'M' for a reason, so little kids dont run around saying LEET and NUB or NOOB, or I PWNED UR TEAM. IF you know someone who says this in life, and smack them.

While it's lovely that in these uncertain times you have so much conviction in your statements, do you have a source or anything? Foolish Mortal 12:31, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, why would anyone remove the O from OWNED in the first place?

"owned" just looks cooler with a little "|" attached to the "o" to make it look like "p". The "p" in "pwned" is really an "o", but it just has a cool looking line on it.

EDIT - you are incorrect. Note the proximity of the p key to the o key on your keyboard. its obviously a typo.

...No.

"pwned" originated from "owned" in a CS game where the typo was made, substituting the "o" for a "p". It caught on, and now is considered traditional l33t, and the "e" has been replaced with "3" in an even more l33t form of the word

Well, CS was certainly the first place I encountered pwned in common use and the typo explanation is the one that I keep coming back to, primarily because it's the only one that doesn't require a tortuous explanation. I'm really not sure that all of the Phracked stuff should be in the article, that sounds like pure coincidence to me. Sourcing something like this seems near impossible, maybe the article should focus more on the use and less on the etymology? Or at least keep the etymology section necessarily vague.

thats so retarded. noob...read the article. It's right.

It's much older than that. First usage was almost certainly in the BBS era. 76.180.120.161 (talk) 06:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources, plz?

While it's inherently difficult to source things in online gaming culture, statements like "adopted by practically all online gaming communities" are just inexcusable. Anyone watching this page want to take a crack at it? nae'blis _(talk) 20:51, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd agree with your first statement. There is, as far as I'm aware, no definitive work on the topic of video game sub-culture slang. Do you have suggestions? At this point, I think the best source for such a statement would be the direct experience of a wide range of Wikipedia editors who have not reverted such statemets (I would certainly agree that gamers of all stripes that I have known use the term). -Harmil 10:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

And most of the people I know who play computer games (who are generally over 21, and not playing in LAN parties/i-cafes) don't use it. YMMV, but that's why I'm objecting to the overgeneralization. Also, I want a source on the "those bears totally pwned those hunters" comment, which seems forced, to say the least. nae'blis _(talk) 19:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I will try to find some decent sources for this. I agree that some of the info here should be removed BUT realise that Wikipedia probably has the most extensive parcel of info on "pwned" on the Internet now. The real issue is seperating what's needed and accurate and what's not.--Mike 02:49, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Derivative words

I renamed this section "Notable derivative words" to emphasize that this is not the place to add every derivative of "pwn" you can possibly think of. Otherwise the page would end up with many dozens (maybe even hundreds) or rarely-used "derivatives". My suggestion is that only commonly-used, well-established words should be listed in this section. "Commonly-used" means at least a couple hundred independent Google hits. "Well-established" means it's been been in wide use for at least a couple months. "Derivative words" that do not pass these two tests should not be included in this article (but feel free to start a List of words derived from pwn if you really feel that every use of pwn needs to be noted somewhere). See also Internet slang and List of internet slang. Colin M. 23:40, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Other trivia

In version of Hamlet released by the Nova 2010 Shakespeare project, which will produce modern-verse versions of William Shakespeare's plays, Laertes shouts "Thou are pwnt!" after striking the titular protagonist with a poisoned blade.

Really? I can't find any evidence for this. Trollderella 22:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Wow! I never thought of that. The translation of Shakspeare into t337. Truly a contractdiction in terms. Kind of like Instant Julia Child.

The refrence for this is: [[2]] Nov 10, 2005 Actually the refrence is No-Effort. Its a flash movie. © Copyright Chris Coutts 1999-2004 and its REALLY REALLY BAD.

Origin of Pwn

After being around online gaming, and communications for decades: I would speculate that Pwn, is word of t337 speek, and t337 came from warez and piracy. Its common usage now is in PK(PlayerKiller)fights on online games. The z at the end of warez, probibly was a play on words like smileys :P, using ASCII character sets. ( `>8-<-< = Robin Hood ) The use of ASCII character sets for art was popular on BBSs in the 1980s. Which probibly originated with the use of ASCII, as graphics for the computer game Rogue '@'. Rogue was developed to test TermCapabilities( TermCap ). The only thing I remember that resembled ASCII art before Rogue, would be a rotating line, with 4 ASCII characters '-', '\','|' and '/'. and pictures printed ( large scale multiple sheets ) from line printers.

I would say that of any word in t337 speak, pwn is probibly as important as the rest of the language, with the exception of the word 'warez'.

WTF is "teet" speak? Don't you mean 1337?

( SHOOT ME. I looked for warez on wikiPedia...! ) ( warez is NOT a contraction of warehouse! Noooo )

You should have been there...but mabye not. --Artoftransformation 12:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

The origin is first of pwned. pwn is a reverse derivation of that. It comes from "pk" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player#Player_killing

The act of abbreviating it as "pk" caused it to change sense and meaning. Creating the infinitive "to pk" (to player-kill - ie to kill another player's character in the game). This is to differentiate between killing player controlled characters and computer controlled ones (npcs, mobs, whatever.) So, if you "mob-ripped" (rip starting from R.I.P, and turning into a verb) it meant you died from a mob, rather than being pk'ed, which meant that you died from another player's character.

By abbreviating in this way, new abbreviations tend to appear, like being p-looted (another player takes your character's equipment), to being p-owned (which we are discussing here).

As for p-owned, if you blinked you would have missed its morphology. it went from p-owned to pwned rather quickly. The easy typo of own to pwn, and its similarity to other words (like pawn - in the sense of being "used". With "use", in this case, giving a slight semantic meaning as f-ed - "I used you like a b-h" - to - "I f-ed you up" - to - "I pwned you"), among other things, gave it nearly immediate widespread usage. It's a very aggressive statement with the speaker attempting to forcibly imply dominance. And much stronger than the simple "I beat you" of competition.

"poon" or "p00n" are variations of this, but also of the word "harpoon". I p00ned you = I speared you. (note the phallic references throughout all.)

I hope this helps.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.144.181 (talk • contribs)

Did you make that up just now... or did it take some time? — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2006-01-27 07:54

It looks like a lot more time went into than was necessary, but all the same, thanks for the good read.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 16:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I am in complete agreement as to the source coming from player-versus-player conflict. MUDs that allow player-versus-player fighting are called "PK" muds. The information stored about a player is a player file, or "pfile". Killing another player is called a player kill, or "pkill". Killing something in a fashion so overwhelming as to go beyond the connotation of "kill" was referred to as "owning" it. Using the same derivation of the other words, "owning" was for mobiles or non-player charcacters, and "powning" was for players. As in "he didn't just pkill him, he powned him". This also relates to pronunciation, in that the "p" is an abbreviation for player, so it should be pronounced as "p-owned".

The point of it was to hopefully update/add to the main "pwn" article. : ) I was/am presuming that changes are posted here, for approval into the main article. I can reformat/edit the above text in several ways, or whatever, just let me know.

I've been "online" since the mid to late 70s in many different aspects/ways. Just discovering how voluminous wikipedia is, and starting to get hooked : )

PS-the pronunciation I've typically heard (in person, on voice chat, etc) is /pee-ohnd/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.144.181 (talk • contribs)

we've been having a long standing issue with verifiability on this article. While for the most part I think that WP:NOR and WP:CITE are being taken a little to seriously here, and that WP:IAR should be considered to a small extent, I am starting to agree with BRIAN more with respect to verifying as much of the information as possible before posting it. It might be of interest for you to create an account also, its free, easy, provides added anonyminity(sp?), and makes it easier to track/have discussions about edits. Also, if you have a signifigant interest in editing this article, you might want to take a quick breeze over the rest of this talk page, noting some of the more recent verifiability and source discussions. Oh, and welcome to Wikipedia.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 19:36, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Wait, i thought it was from a misspelling they accidentally coded into warcraft 1 or something... Bonus Onus 00:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

And that there is exactly the problem. Everyone and their mother thinks they know the origin of pwn, there are almost as many stories about it as there are articles in Wikipedia. It's impossible to know which one is true. Heliomance 13:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Why is it that the typo theory is such a popular one? The proximity-of-the-o-and-the-p-keys argument is people thinking about this in entirely the wrong way, and it stinks of a theory after the fact AND it seems to me like it's more popular with the people who are confused and unfamiliar with the useage of "pwn" in general, whereas the people who are accustomed to the word find other theories more acceptable.

The truth is, pwned became popular because people find it funny. Even if the word was originally misspelled, the more accurate way of describing the origin of pwned would be speculation/sourced-infomation on the period of its usage and its rise in popularity. For all we know many words and meanings may be originally attributed to random and trite events, but there would never be any way of verifying it regardless.Mythiran 04:40, 12 Feb 2007

I think its because ppl missspelled own, since p is next to the o... - 69.248.175.25 23:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Am I the only person who thinks the picture for this page makes no sense? Apparently someone was Pwned, but the picture doesn't illustrate that fact in any sense I can think of.--Mihoshi 20:00, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I fixed the picture issue James 10:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Bah!

Too bad this article didn't get pwned in the vfd. :P The Wookieepedian 19:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

OOOoo, pwned. --Shadow Puppet 20:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Theories of origination

I would propose that as a criterion for a theory's inclusion in the "Theories of origination" section of the article, that theory must have the verifiable support of at least two distinct people. I believe that this would reduce the size of that section substantially. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 02:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Possible Source of Pwnd in Starcraft

A friend of mine (and a quite reliable source) said that the phrase "pwnd" was coined by himself and a few friends in Starcraft in 1998. It was used as a term in online play, particularly in sniper, to describe the action of patrolling areas for enemies to gain an advantage. Since the hotkey for patrol is the letter "P" and you would own someone by using it, the two were put together as patrol own- in essence, pown. After a while, it worked its way down to simply pwn, which is what is used today.
If anyone is wondering, the people who credit themselves with this are named in the Starcraft community as gotunks2 and lukefrenz.
I believe that this is quite reliable myself, as I do have two sources (one of which doesn't even live in the same state and I do not know, so I can say it's not a scam), and the other descriptions of the origin (especially the Warcraft designer's theory) don't contain any sources or links to interviews or the like. And if the story about the designer is true, then there would have to be some written proof somewhere.
- Canadian_nazl ^{(talk - contribs)} 07:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

There are many several theories regarding the origin, and it would be a mistake to cite one source as more reliable over any other without specific citable evidence. I am going to edit accordingly, if anyone objects please revert, but only if you are willing to defend your reversion.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 23:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I just found this on IMDB - http://imdb.com/title/tt0217061/trivia "... Starcraft first made use of the word "pwned", which is popular with Internet users. It came about when a map designer misspelled the word. Then the game was published with the error. When a player had been beaten, the message "______ has been pwned" appeared..." 82.60.131.198 23:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

It's been around longer than that. For example, Phreak World News, existing in Phrack Magazine since issue 2 (then Phreak World News) is initialized 'PWN.' This was probably intentional. For reference, the date on the third issue of Phrack is February 1st 1986. I am not sure when the word itself first appeared in phrack, but for the most part 'owned' appears to have been used. 76.180.120.161 (talk) 05:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Pwned

Pwned gained fame from PlanetQuake. Back in 98 they published an article with pwned in as a test to see if the sheep would adopt it too, to try and fit in. Obviously it originally began as a typo, but Planetquake is responsible for its widespread use.

The only 'evidence' I can give is from old PQ mailbags where they'd already ran it into the ground by mid 99: 1 2 3 If you can track down Lowtax or the original PQ squad I'm sure they would confirm it. Trampled

I'm sure too that they would confirm their own apparent founding of the word. Unfortunately this just fits in with the fundamental idea that as an internet meme, its true ancestry is likely untraceably. As far as I'm concerned, and I'm pretty sure everyone else will see it the same way, all the various explanations hold equally without indisputable evidence of one over another. This falls right in line with the histories of various fads, they can only be traced to a limited set of possibilities, rarely anything more.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 01:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see why anyone would be proud of starting off such an idiotic trend. Most of the PQ staff hated the word and regretted publish ing it. If you can find any earlier reference to it on a popular website I'd love to see it, but I was around at that time and I am pretty certain that is the first time I'd heard it. Trampled

Unfortunately those links you provided dont work, and as it has no verifiability over anything else as a theory, it should remain as such. Any proof would also have to be conclusive, not just an example of how it seemed to you at the time.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 17:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Exapmle: Anarchy, he got qwned by flow

I was unable to find any proof of this, but I distinctly recall this exploding after PQ had an article with "pwned" in it. This was definitely some time in '98. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.224.252 (talk • contribs)

Like I said, its just another theory behind an internet meme. No one took notice of a reason to document its development, and now as a result everyone and their mother wants to claim they know what is going on. All these little theories that keep popping up are already encompassed in the primary possibilities made in the article, which I'm afraid are as close as we're going to get. Most likely, "pwn" occured as a typo in several places before it became popular, possibly originating from all these sources. Its been known to happen.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 17:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to vouch for this one as well. The PlanetQuake article was the first time I had seen the word used intentionally. As I recall, the authors were complaining about the prevalence of 'owned' and it's various derivatives and facetiously presented 'pweened' as an alternative. The subsequent abuse by the PQ community certainly helped popularize and cement it's usage. The consensus here seems to be that it evolved directly from a typo of 'owned'. My hypothesis is that the various permutations such as 'pwn' and 'pwned' evolved (devolved?) from the original 'pweened', which was contrived by the article's authors and inspired by what was at the time an unheralded typo. If one believes this etymology, the proper pronunciation of the word is 'pweened' and not 'pohned'; pwn and pwned are contractions/variations of 'pweened'. All of this is of course hard to verify now that the original article is seemingly impossible to find. However, Lowtax (Webmaster @ www.somethingawful.com) and his sites have been responsible for various ridiculous things propagating across the internet, look no further than allyourbase and karnov. It doesn't surprise me that he would also be a key factor here.

The fad on PQ died down and many new gamers started to come online. I think we had people that saw the word being used but had never read this article / been involved in the geeky online computer gaming scene at the time. PlanetQuake/Bluesnews/Shugashack were THE online FPS community in 1998 as Quake and Quake 2 dominated until the CS betas really gathered steam and brought FPS's to a larger audience which wasn't around for / could care less about the origin of 'pwned' - by then it was just common trash talk and the inuitive explanation for it IS that it's simply a typo of 'pwned', similar to 'pron' and 'porn'. The problem with intuition in this case is that it also suggests that it's pronounced 'pohned', which if you buy my explanation is like hearing nails on chalkboard.

Of course, I know I'm wrong when I pronounce 'ghibs' instead of 'jibs' and I do it anyway ;).--68.149.110.205 12:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that pq was probly responsible for the widespread use of "pwned" today but they did not invent it. i was using it while playind the origanal warcraft back in 1994, before the pq article. It was such a common unintentional typo that i and all warcraft players began to use it intentionally kind of as a joke. If you notice the "p" and the "o" are tight next to eachother on the keyboard. now of course we dont use the term jokingly anymore.

I can also vouch for the PQ article, although I belive I read it on PlanetFortress. The article was talking specifically about a clan match in which a player had accidently misstyped pwned instead of owned, and supposedly the players found it funny enough that it disrupted the match. This is understandable considering how widespread the usage of "owned" had become at this time, and was viewed as a term used by the "kiddies" etc... If I recall correctly one of the 2 clans involved in the match was Gothic Terror. It may be possible to track down someone from them.

I remember it distinctly coming from PQ also. I've been a part of many gaming communities. Before it appeared in Starcraft vernacular and other FPS games, I saw it on PQ. I strongly disbelieve it came from "PK" in RPGs. falsedef 01:48, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Verification

There are no verifiable or reputable references for this article; therefore adhering to Wikipedia policy just like the user "Viriditas", I must target this article for deletion because it is "original research" and cannot be verified. If you have questions about this decision, please contact Viriditas. Haizum 06:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do not blank Wikipedia articles. And, please do not disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point. --Viriditas 06:43, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

You just proved my point exactly. Thanks! Haizum 06:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

WP:POINT. --Viriditas 06:59, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

First of all, please dont create seperate Re: sections everytime you reply. Please leave it in the existing sections using appropriate indentation like everyone else. Second, this article does not qualify under original research. See HERE. While that section does not completely encompass the scope of this article, it would be an appropriate guideline. As for the theories regarding the orgigins section, so far every theory I've seen there sports some large form of following and consensus, and absolutely none have been given documentable proof over another as either first use or even occuring at all. --Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 17:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Exapmle: Anarchy, he got qwned by flow

Pronunciation

There seems to be an issue with this. If anyone isn't sure what pronounciations are used, especially most commonly, see for yourself. Go onto a CS server, or any other game with voicechat, or hang around teamspeak channels. You will definitely see that the current statements regarding pronounciation in the article are correct.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 15:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I still say that it's totally pronounced 'pyooned'. That's just my two cents.--Javguerre

Out of all of the pronunciations, how would that one make any sense? Where is the 'y' sound coming from? Avengerx 20:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe that it can reasonably be pronounced as 'pewned' (Yes, pew + -ned). I also believe that there must be at least one other person who agrees. --Javguerre

thats the problem with an article like this. Too many people want to put in "their two cents" and no one wants to realistically look at the big picture. A word is pronounced exactly how society pronounces it. No one's going to argue that dog is pronounced "doog" because everyone knows better. Someone probably pronounces it that way but the majority of society doesn't. --Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 01:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The most common way of pronouncing "pwn" is pohn. Basicly say "own", but put a "p" in front of it. Thanks for adding the pronunciation on the main article James 10:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

You may be interested to hear that "poon" has something going for it, in that it is consistent with the Welsh language, in which "w" is a vowel pronounced "oo". Hurukan 19:54, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm always pawned, personally. Secretlondon 18:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The article should just point out the different methods of pronunciation (owned, pawned, poned, etc) rather then everyone arguing here about who's two cents gets put in. lax15o

The New "Pwn'd" Picture

I scratched the old "pwn" picture and put in this new one. I think this one defines "pwn" more clearly James 10:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

"Crap theories" and factual accuracy

First, I'd like to call into question your concept of "crap theories". Just because you do not agree with something does not mean that it is crap, and it is definitely not proper to delete them outright. Second, how exactly do you propose anyone gets citations for any of these theories. There is no clear way of determining the roots, and this is reflected in the phrasing of the theories. There are no independent research studies concerning the eytomology of the term 'PWN', and this is reflected in the article. Thus, we must include a variety of possible reasons. Avengerx 17:08, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I guess adminstrators don't have to read discussion pages, because they are automatically right. Avengerx 17:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

They are random claims made by 1-edit anons on this talk page. Deciding to stick them in the article goes against WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:NOR. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2005-12-31 17:19

Also, it is ridiculous supposition (as well as original research) to claim that because it may be difficult or impossible to pin down the source of the term, any old suggestion by anyone should be allowed in the article, whether or not it is based on anything factual or verifiable. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2005-12-31 17:22

"If you want to adhere strictly to the no original research policy, then we must delete the entire article. ALL of this article is supposition and original research. In fact, half of wikipedia would have to be deleted, JUST because we don't have a "specialist" in all of these subjects who can do "academic" research. Yet again, another seagull Wikipedian, who would rather tag up an article before fixing it. Avengerx 17:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you denying what I have said in my reply, or ignoring it? — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2005-12-31 18:10

In your reply, you mention factual accuracy and verification are the major issues that you are attempting to tackle. If that is what you are trying to say and demonstrate, then what I am saying is that it is impossible to verify ANY of the text within the article. And, in response to what you said before (in the part of your post that you deleted), could tacking on any source to the statements within the article make them any more solid? Instead of having a well trimmed article, with a variety of possible explanations, you have decided to request citations that cannot possibly exist in proper format, and to delete things rather than work on them. Because of your status as an administrator, you have already flaunted your ability to delete things out nothing more than your will by citing them as 'crap'. While I would love to help make this article better, I know that anything I do will be over-ridden by your authority. And to that I concede, though with downtrodden sentiment. P.S. I believe that I addressed what you said clearly, in both this post and my previous one. If there is a failure in our communications, please address it directly so that I may clarify myself. Avengerx 20:10, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's something to consider. What if some of these theories have shown themselves in repeated mention on the internet, which while normally is not a good source of verifiablity, most definitely IS when the subject in question is at is core an internet topic. In which case you can do a google search on pwn, or pistol own, and find tons of associations with the two. This isn't just some 1 edit anon theory either. This theory; as someone who has been playing FPS games for a long time, and talking on internet and gamer related messageboards; I can say has been in existence for a LONG time, and is held by a signifigant portion of the users of the term. It is a perfectly plausible and likely origination of the word "pwn" and is definitely one of its most common interpretations. If that is the only reason against its mention in the article than perhaps the origin section shoudl be renamed "origin and use" or "origins and proliferation"--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 11:08, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The reason it is not included is because it is not based on anything verifiable. If you would like to find the most reliable sources for the information, sources that didn't base their information off of this Wikipedia article, then we can use them in the article as references. The Starcraft reference needs only a screenshot of the typo. This should be simple enough to verify. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2006-01-1 14:18

Also, if you are still thinking that the pronounciation needs citation. How is one supposed to cite what could in easily be considered reasonable knowledge. If you regularly use speakeasy or other voicechat while playing online games, it becomes as plain as day which pronounciations are used regularly.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 11:12, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, so we document how different voicechat programs pronounce the term, but the most likely pronounciation will rhyme with own, since own is the most likely origin of the term. — ₀₉₁₈^BRIAN • 2006-01-3 08:17

It seems you are thinking of programs that convert text to voice. I was intending to refer to programs that simply transfer voice signals, simmilar to VIOP, in videogames. Many like Counter-Strike have their own, there is the Xbox Live system if you're familliar with it at all, and then there is [3]. I was referring to ways that players themselves actually pronounced the words, over a wide geographical area, since it is easy to have players from all over the country and even internationally on the same voice channel or server.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 23:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC)