Talk:Quneitra Governorate clashes (2012–2014)

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Scope too narrow[edit]

The scope of this article is too narrow. These incidents are largely unlike the Turkish border clashes in that they are the result of fighting on the Syrian side of the border spilling over into the Israeli-occupied Golan, spooking troops there into firing back. There is intense fighting between gov't troops and rebels in the DMZ, and there is speculation from Israeli military sources that this is a deliberate move to force the army into operating in buffer territory, where their ability to fight is legally impaired [1]. At the very least, the opposition should be added in a third column, but I personally would advocate for moving this article to 2012 Golan Heights clashes or something similar, as this is more than passive back-and-forth shelling between the army and Israel. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 08:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since no defence has been offered in nearly two weeks, I have moved the article. Nevertheless, it still needs much more information on the actual clashes occurring on the Syrian side. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 06:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the most suitable name would be "2012 Quneitra Governorate clashes". Considering the scope of this article as a broad fighting between rebels and government - the Syrians largely relate to Quneitra governorate, rather than Golan Heights to the area.Greyshark09 (talk) 17:08, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties[edit]

The report about Israeli soldiers that were injured are mistakes. Syrian indeed hit Israeli military vehicle but the vehicle is armored and simple bullets can't injure the soldiers inside(But they can damage the vehicle itself). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.95.59.234 (talk) 18:28, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename[edit]

This article should be renamed to 2012–2013 Golan Heights clashes or 2012–present Golan Heights clashes because it is still ongoing. --93.139.202.28 (talk) 09:41, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Third column[edit]

Considering the limited involvement if Israel in those FSA-Syrian Army clashes, i think we should remove the third column and put the only 2 wounded Israeli soldiers below in total casualties section. 2 wounded soldiers and some equipment damage as well as none or minor casualties on Syrian side in cross-fire events don't warrant IDF to be a belligerent here.Greyshark09 (talk) 08:45, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alleged Israeli support of Syrian rebels[edit]

In the Wikipedia community, there are some editors who insist that Israel supports the anti-Assad forces in Syria, and thus continue to place Israel as a supporter of the rebels in the infobox. I have tried multiple times to correct this by either moving Israel to a third column in the infobox, or by deleting it from the infobox altogether, but I am constantly reverted with little explanation given for the reversion. When I am given an explanation, it is usually a link to a pro-Assad/anti-Israel news source, which is more propaganda than factual information. It is like being in an edit war with the PFLP-GC. Functioning as the voice of reason, I have stated multiple times that Israel supports neither Assad nor the rebels, and is concerned only with securing it's own borders. In an effort to avoid an edit war, I would like to hear information from a reliable source (not a propaganda site or a tabloid news source) that shows proof of direct Israeli military support for the rebels. Otherwise, I will once again remove Israel from the infobox.208.123.183.71 (talk) 18:36, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tons of Sources confirmed Israel support the insurgents using the military force. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.630359 http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/23/world/meast/syria-israel-plane/ http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/28/us-israel-syria-idUSKBN0L10E720150128 www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/28/us-israel-syria-idUSKBN0L10E720150128 http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/503916/Syria-war-al-Qaeda-Nusra-Front-Golan-Heights-Israel-border-crossing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.203.100.117 (talk) 13:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

None of these sources show any evidence of Israeli "support" for the rebels. They only prove that the IDF is "involved" in the situation in the Golan.

  • The CNN and Reuters sources only confirm Israeli airstrikes, which are retaliatory operations for Syrian fire into Israel. These airstrikes are not intended to support the rebels, although they indirectly do.
  • The Express only states that rebel militias occupied the border crossing. The article mentions nothing about Israeli support or involvement.
  • Although the Haaretz source gives the impression of Israeli "support" for the rebels, interpreting it that way is the fault of the reader. The UN report mentioned in the article confirms Israeli "contact" with rebel troops. However, "contact" and "support" are not the same thing.
    • Israel's contact with rebel soldiers is most likely an Israeli HUMINT (Human Intelligence) collection operation, in which rebels are recruited by the Israeli intelligence agencies to cross the border to give information to Israeli intelligence officers about the situation on the ground. This would explain why the Israelis are always well-informed regarding information on the Syrian civil war.
    • If rebels leave the Israeli border with objects (such as the two boxes reported by UNDOF), they are most likely return favors (such as bribes) the Israelis give their agents implanted in the rebel militias to encourage them to maintain contact with Israel. Bribing rebels (and interrogating wounded rebels in Israeli hospitals) would be an efficient method to maintain a constant flow of Syria-related intelligence to the Israeli leadership.

72.25.38.116 (talk) 21:11, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relocation of information from Quneitra page[edit]

I relocated an enormous swath of material from the Quneitra page to this article because the information was more relevant here than in the other article which is supposed to be about the city of Quneitra itself not all of the activities that occur in the governorate and region or the wider Israeli-Iranian conflict. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

user:Al Ameer son - my friend, i have just removed big chunks of unrelated info from this article, thus i hope it is not related to your reclocation of material. I hope you are aware that this page is ONLY about the 2012-2014 events, not including post September 2014 phases, which are covered in 2014 Quneitra offensive.GreyShark (dibra) 19:42, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. See Talk:Quneitra#Syrian Civil War info for details as to why I relocated it. Unfortunately, I didn't transfer the material with much precision. Anyway, no objections to your aforementioned edits. --Al Ameer (talk) 21:04, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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