Talk:Rachel Chiesley, Lady Grange

Comment

Its at least a C ... although I find some of the pictures a bit random. e.g. picture of distant cottage. Maybe remove a few? if more relevant pictures can't be found? Victuallers (talk) 14:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Review by Ruhrfisch

Ruhrfisch comments: This seems overall pretty good to me and as I mentioned, I think it would have little trouble making GA and not too much would be required for it to do well at FAC. As requested, here are some suggestions for improvement with FAC in mind - thanks for an enjoyable and interesting read.

• The lead is only one paragraph and the article page size tool shows this is 16 kB of text. I am suggesting a few additions, so I think the article will only get slightly larger. WP:LEAD strongly suggests at least two paragraphs in the lead for an article of this size. Could probably split the current lead after St Kilda and expoand both parts a bit with more detail.
• I am sure almost all Scots will see Jacobite sympathies and know immediately what is going on, but I think it would help to add a bit of background (a paragraph perhaps) on the political situation of the time.

Both attempted - although in a slightly desultory way.

• Some FACs lately have been critical of one paragraph sections in articles, so perhaps the Early years section could be Background and early years? Monach Isles is also only one paragraph - not sure if that will be a problem or not.

Will attend to if sent to FAC.

• I like how her age is given when her father was executed and would give that in a few other places too - how old she was when she married (if it was in 1707), for one, or how old she was when kidnapped?

Done

• The bullet list of children may also be an issue at FAC as some reviewers do not like bullet lists. Could it be converted into prose? If it were prose, perhaps start with a general statement on the number of children, then mention the children known to have survived to adulthood, then those who died in childhood or whose fate is unknown, then the miscarriages, etc. The later marriages of the children could be listed after this.

Certainly possible - will consider.

• I am guessing it is a British English term, but I am not sure what wikt:barracked means in For example she barracked her husband in the street and in church ... I looked on Wiktionary and none of the definitions there make sense.

"jeered".

• I wonder if note 3 wouldn't be better in the text, perhaps as a text box? It is very plaintive.

Will do.

• I know the section is called "St Kilda" but the transition is a bit abrupt - the previous section ends she was told she was being taken to Orkney, then there is a description of the cleit she lived in. Would it makes sense to end the previous section with something like They told her they were taking her to Orkney, but instead they took her to St. Kilda.[29][30]

Done

• The last phrase in this sentence seems not to quite agree with the preceding phrase (though I understand what is meant): When Martin Martin visited the islands in 1697,[36] the only means of making the journey was by open longboat, which could take several days and nights of rowing and sailing across the open ocean and was next to impossible to reach in autumn and winter. I think if "to reach" were eliminated, it might be clearer (as "to reach" refers to the island, and just "was next to impossible in autumn and winter" refers to the journey

Done

• When did Hope's sloop arrive at St Kilda? Also he is referred to as both Hope and Rankeillor, which might be confusing.

Done.

• Needs a ref Paradoxically, Lady Grange's letters and her resultant evacuation from the island, may have prevented her being found by this expedition.[Note 9]

Done.

• The first and third paragraphs of Motivations need refs - perhaps the first one does not, but the third definitley needs ref(s)

Done.

• I would spell out Jacobite Rising of 1745 and not just have "the '45" (although it is linked)

Done

• I also wonder if it would help to give the ages of (some of) her children - the oldest two would have been 23 and 21 when she was kidnapped, and were in their mid 30s but the time of her death. I think when readers see "her children" they tend to think of helpless preteens more than adults.

Done

• Was William Erskine (poet) a relation? If not (or if so), I would say so

Unknown - note on this now provided.

• WP:See also says "Editors should provide a brief annotation when a link's relevance is not immediately apparent..."

Done

• Is this a WP:RS?

Fixed

• The ref on the excavation of her manor house here says she "was a wild beauty and married her husband only after he got her pregnant" - worth including?

Done

• Would a map showing the locations of Edinburgh, Monach, St Kilda, Skye and perhaps some other places mentioned in the article be useful?

Done

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks Ben MacDui 11:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Glad to help - please let me know if you take this to FAC. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Will do. St Kilda books are being published so frequently now, although not all of them have anything new to say, but I think there is one more I need to save up for before taking it there. Ben MacDui 18:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually Ricketts Glen State Park is up at peer review now, from Dincher and I, if you have the time and inclination. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:19, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

fixed awkward syntax

Changed "it is a remarkable aspect of the story that no action was ever taken by any of Lady Grange's children on her behalf after her kidnapping, the eldest of whom would have been in their early twenties when she was abducted." to "remarkably enough, after Lady Grange’s kidnapping, no action was ever taken on her behalf by any of her children, the eldest of whom would have been in their early twenties when she was abducted." 4.248.223.50 (talk) 00:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Authority Control

Anyone have any idea what this template is supposed to be achieving - it is pretty useless in its current configuration. I have looked at the talk page and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Unique Identifiers, which look very much to me like a solution in search of a problem. Ben MacDui 14:17, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Seaboard

This article uses Seaboard, which is general an Americanism in what is a British English article. I have changed it but it has been revered with the claim that somehow seaboard includes islands and coast does not. This is a false distinction. See this. Kitchen Knife (talk) 14:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It isn't an Americanism and seaboard conveys a broader area than just the coastline, which is more appropriate here since St Kilda, for example, is off the west coast not on it. DrKiernan (talk) 14:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Not according to WikiPedia Seaboard it is a synonym for coast. With an archaic base use of board.Kitchen Knife (talk) 15:00, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Like many features of U.S. English, 'seaboard' likely derives from Scottish English rather than English English, which is why English people often find things written by Scots to be vaguely "foreign" or at least different. It is very common and established in application to Scottish geography, as a quick search of Google Books proves. --Mais oui! (talk) 15:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

That retruns 4000+ result replacing seaboard with coast returns 124000, which makes the first use a 3% minority usage.Kitchen Knife (talk) 15:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

And as I'm sure you'll appreciate, the vast majority of Google hits will be from non-Scottish sources. If you need enlightenment, please see the notice at the head of this Talk page: "This article uses Scottish English dialect and spelling. Some terms that are used in it differ from or are not used in British, American or other dialects of English." --Mais oui! (talk) 15:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

But there is no indication in your list that does relate to Scotish sources, it may just be a minority usage in many places including the US. The only thing sure it is that it is a minority usage.Kitchen Knife (talk) 16:59, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

If you restrict the google book search to 21st century sources, you get 127 sources versus 84. I still think seaboard is better. DrKiernan (talk) 17:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Hyperlinked references reverted

Why? Leandrogfcdutra (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

They aren't improvements. They are just changes that introduce a "Cite error: Invalid <ref> tag" and 1.6k extra bandwidth. DrKiernan (talk) 16:24, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they are. They are hyperlinks. Errors are corrected as they happen, and bandwith used is minimal. Please refrain from reverting others works. Leandrogfcdutra (talk) 16:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

As you've been told before (before you switched accounts), see WP:CITEVAR. DrKiernan (talk) 16:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I fail to see how adding anchors and hyperlinks violate policy. Leandrogfcdutra (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Where was her journey after her kidnap?

I'm looking here which seems to be a copy of a relable source. I'm interested in the section that says "When this failed, they used more forceful methods and the lady was bundled into a sedan chair and taken to Mutrie's Hill, outside Edinburgh. From there she was taken on horseback to Muiravonside House where she was comfortably lodged for a day and night". This detail about her stay at Muiravonside House isn't mentioned in this FA. Could it be added? Victuallers (talk) 10:38, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

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