Talk:Ralph H. Baer

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Badly written[edit]

This article is quite badly written. Nolan Bushnell's name is spelled wrong, the sentence structure is very sloppy, and the factual accuracy is pretty dubious. Baer deserves a great deal of credit for the development of the home video game industry, but he is not the "inventor of video games." If any single person deserves that title it is Stephen R. Russell, who wrote Space War at MIT in 1961.68.14.90.253 17:59, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Some anonymous poster recently put in a lot of badly written piffle, that I'm glad to see you have removed. As with most inventions, there is some controversy about who deserves how much credit for what when it comes to video games. The current wording seems pretty good. - DavidWBrooks 19:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The television channel G4 recently ran an episode of their show "Icons" featuring Baer. It seems that a couple of people have used the very basic and somewhat one-sided historical account from that show as gospel.68.14.90.253 23:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
What about William Higginbotham? Drumpler 09:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What about him? This is an entry on Ralph Baer. Likewise regarding both Russell and Higginbotham, the court ruled that neither invented video games since it was defined in the court as an electronic device producing a signal through an ordinary television (video) aparatus. Higginbotham's used a vector driven oscilliscope and Russell's a vector monitor on a mini-computer. In the case of Russell, his wasn't even the first game written in a computer environment. --Marty Goldberg 10:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I feel personally that this whole "who-invented-the-first-video-game" debate to be missing the point. The reason I brought up Higginbotham is because you have those in some camp who credit him for making the first game and then you have others (including Baer himself and rather childishly, I might add) claiming Baer made it. Then there's Russel . . . how come all these Wikipedia articles say that they ALL made the first video game when they ALL made them at different times and on different media? The articles themselves are lacking complete neutrality. Personally, I'm in the "Higginbotham" camp because he was the first one (that I know of) who decided that one could manipulate a pixel on a display for competitive purposes, but I think what needs to be done is to stop attributing any of them and state that they are claims and to make another page (maybe First Video Game?) where this debate can be hammered out. But this is just my idea. Drumpler 13:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It says "He invented the home console for video games" not that he invented the first video game, which seems reasonable. - DavidWBrooks 14:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the courts decided it long ago, so I'm not sure there's much of a debate. All parties claiming the innovation were presented as evidence by companies in the various suits across the 70's and 80's (even Higginbotham himself was called to testify) and all were dismissed. And your statement on Higginbotham "manipulating pixels" shows the exact problem with the argument of the "higginbotham camp". He didn't manipulate any pixels, an oscilliscope uses a vector display system not raster (i.e. a TV) - there are no pixels to manipulate. Again a fact the courts found important when defining the word "video" and "video game" which has to do with manifulation of a television signal. The confusion now is that the term "video game" later went on to be applied as a general term in the popular vernacular for any computerized/electronic game. --Marty Goldberg 15:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Point noted. However, if it interests anyone, I still made a stub at first video game. The debate lies in the fact that you've got several sources crediting different figures as the first creator of the video game (inspite of court rulings -- I was to understand that there was a settlement? Correct me if I'm wrong). I think this new article has the potential to present all sides of the issue and being fairly unbiased if carried out correctly. Drumpler 15:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Several companies (since there were various suits over a long time span) chose to settle out of court (such as Atari) after procceedings had started. Others were forced to pay royalties after Magnavox's/Sanders/Ralph's position were upheld by the court. --Marty Goldberg 15:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No william Higinbotham was th fist human to creat video games Darkpanda5000 (talk) 14:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed[edit]

It would be nice to see some citation for what he invented (the Bush thing doesn't do that) and to back up the claim of what he is best known for (or simply drop that assertion and say what he has done, with citation, of course). Dicklyon 20:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "Bush thing" actually does back up that specific statement, as he is recieving an award specifically for that. As far as patents, inventions, etc. his site, which is cited in this article, contains a full listing of patents, products, etc. He is best known in the industry, for his pioneering patents and work on the Odyssey and parallel developed protos. Hence the inclusion of his material in the Smithsonian, etc. etc. --Marty Goldberg 21:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good; plenty of refs to choose from. How about adding some? Dicklyon 00:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and found and added 3 refs, and marked other facts that are begging for refs. Dicklyon 05:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Added refs (though I think it may be getting over referenced and may need some rewriting so its not so choppy). I have to tell you that I've never seen someone add citation requests and then answer some of them themselves. Wouldn't it have been easier just to put in the refs for those to begin with if you were going to provide them anyways? Its almost like watching someone have a conversation with themselves, heh. --Marty Goldberg 05:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that Baer's own page meets the criteria of WP:V, and is not really a suitable reference. It's OK as an external link on his own bio article, but if wikipedia generally repeats info from pages by its subject without verifiability, that's not very useful, and is counter to official policy as I understand it. Not that I don't trust his pages, but it shouldn't be hard to find verifiable reliable sources to use instead.
I think it's strange that you've never seen anyone do this. I started answering myself because you seemed to be resisting. But I probably won't be doing them all. Please help. Note that the request for citation doesn't mean I'm dubious, just that I'm wondering where this info comes from that I was previously not aware of. Having refs make the article much stronger and more useful to people who want to know more. Dicklyon 05:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it does meet WP:v under Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Using_the_subject_as_a_source and is a perfect reference for the two citations its referenced for. Where WP:v would not be met is if it was discussing a controversial topic (that could be considered POV), and there's nothing controversial in the two topics being requested for citation. You asked for a citation for the partnering statement, and Ralph states on the front page of his site "My current associate is Bob Pelovitz of Acsiom, LLC. Bob and I have partnered to invent and market toy and game ideas since 1983 and continue to do so today." You also asked for a reference on the light gun, that is documented on the inventions and products page and is also listed on the patents page where all his patents are listed (such as patent 3,559,221 Recording CRT Light Gun & Method). The entire design process was also detailed in his book (which I highly recommend picking up if you get the chance - he covers the entire design process of all his protos and products, including reproductions of original notes, blueprints. etc. Also covers all his testimony in the patent defense cases during the '70's, '80's, and '90's).
And no, I haven't seen people do this. Normally if people want to contribute a citation, they just contribute it. Not take the time to edit in a request for a citation, and then come back and answer their own request in the same breath. And I'm not resisting adding citations, I'm all for having Ralph well documented - he's a friend/associate of mine. What my thoughts have been were that you weren't taking the time to actually read the materials referenced or linked to, which was surprising to me considering your own esteemed background. Such as when you claimed that vector displays were not covered in the vector graphics article in your video game console revert. There's a difference between an article needing references for unverifiable material and someone simply not reading through the references and material given, causing over-citation (which Wikipedia does not want either). As it stands now, out of the 11 sentences in the Inventions section, eight of them are tagged with reference numbers now and the whole section looks like chopped lettuce and very fragmented. I'll probably have to give it a rewrite as I mentioned. --Marty Goldberg 07:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Suggested addition on memorial stones[edit]

Memory stones at Baer Square[edit]

The memorial was funded through a Kickstarter fundraising campaign. On the floor in front of the Ralph Baer statue are stones with individual inscriptions. Donors of a certain amount were allowed to choose the text for their stone. One element features a binary-code, translating to the ASCII codes for the word Muir, the name of its donor, Kelley Muir.

Sources:

Images:

Binary-inscription in memory-stone
Memorial stones at Ralph Baer memorial including the feet of the sculpture and a visitor
Memorial stones at Ralph Baer memorial including the stone with the binary inscription, high resolution

ThSt71 (talk) 16:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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