Talk:Raven Society

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Raven Society article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Fraternities and Sororities Low‑importance

	Raven Society is part of the Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Greek Life on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to International social societies, local organizations, honor societies, and their members. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, visit the project page, where you can join the project, and/or contribute to the discussion.Fraternities and SororitiesWikipedia:WikiProject Fraternities and SororitiesTemplate:WikiProject Fraternities and SororitiesFraternities and Sororities articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Virginia: Albemarle County Low‑importance

	Virginia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Albemarle County, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education articles

Organizations

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Can't make sense of this passage

Architecture professor Edmund S. Campbell helped the society restore the room in 1924.[2][13] The society opened Poe's preserved room, which they had furnished with "a settee from the Allan home in Richmond" as well as "a real raven, stuffed, [which] looked down from a coign of the room."[14] --- are these two sentences about the same efforts at restoration, or do they have nothing to do with one another? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 13:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. Looking at the dates, the two are not related. I updated the order and reworded for clarity. Rublamb (talk) 14:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. --Melchior2006 (talk) 16:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Raven Award

The following has been moved from User talk:Rublamb so that others may comment. (talk) 13:56, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your work on this article. Query whether the list of "non-notable" recipients (full disclosure-one of them is my ancestor) should be restored to the article. As the sources indicate, the annual and singular award, which is the subject of the article, is made to a student and or faculty member for outstanding academics and leadership, making each recipient "notable". My suggestion would be to restore this, pending appropriate discussion and resolution on the talk page. Thank you again for your experience and expertise. Hoppyh (talk) 13:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of organizations present awards and many more people win them. However, not all awards and their recipients are notable. Notability refers to a Wikipedia standard, indicating that the individual in question has an article in Wikipedia or meets the threshold for an article. Lack of notability in this instance does not diminish the accomplishments of each recipient, it just means that they do not have a Wikipedia article. With regards to restoring the list: this is a campus-specific award and its lack of notable recipients does not suggest a high level of acclaim out of that arena. At this point, there is no justification to include this list--the article is about the society, not about its award. Rublamb (talk) 13:56, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The award is a primary function of the society, and substantive information about its recipients should be included. A list of notable members, per the Wikipedia use of that term, is appropriate. But a list of the award recipients for each year of this annual, singular, award is appropriate information for the article to contain. Wikipedia rules do not require that every name used must be linked to an article. That list should be restored to the article so that work on it may continue and not be arbitrarily discarded. Hoppyh (talk) 14:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the award is that significant, it can have its own article where recipients can be listed. As an example, I refer you to the article on the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences which presents the Academy Award. Note that winners of the Academy Award are not listed in the article about the organization, but in secondary linked articles. However,e ven UVa does not feature the Raven Award in its lists of campus awards and honors, here or here or here. And the article that discusses the McConnell Foundation which gives the Thomas Jefferson Award, UVa's self-proclaimed highest honor, does not include a list of recipients. Rublamb (talk) 14:39, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the list of award recipients is pertinent to this article, just as the list of founding members is, and represents substantive work by other editors, now discarded without adequate justification in my view. Thank you again. Hoppyh (talk) 15:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only 3 of the 27 names on the list of award recipients had a source; two of those were sourced to the organization itself. So, even if this is noteworthy content, it was correct to remove it per WP:NOR. FYI, the WP F&S is not totally in agreement with lists of non-notable members; see WP:LISTCRITERIA for more information. Rublamb (talk) 15:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the "academic school"?

This descriptor, used for example with "J. I. Viney (academic school)" seems like a tautology. What does it mean? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 16:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the sources I reviewed, members were picked to represent the various schools of the university. It lists several founders as comng from Academic, one of those schools. I am guessing it was akin to a College of Arts & Sciences, probably called the Academic College but I don't know for sure. Thus, I kept the School terminology. Do you think it would be better to drop "school" from all on this list, leaving just academic, graduate, law, medical, etc.? I think all should be treated the same way. FYI Thos. Jefferson called the university an "Academical Village" so academic may simply refer to the general university. Rublamb (talk) 20:50, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dropping "School" wouldn't help that much. The optimal solution would be to research this use of the term "academic" and explain it in the section. It is strange that back then they thought that medical and legal studies were not "academic", but philosophy was? It seems like a provincial approach. Where might we look for more orientation? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 07:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well we are talking about the university that rigidly refers to its campus as "grounds". Many things are the legacy of its founder, Thomas Jefferson. I don't find it strange that the the medical and the law graduate programs were classed seperately from the undergraduate/academic school. That is normal on most campuses today. Engineering being different makes sense too—just like Sheffield Scientic was the division of Yale for the undergraduate study of chemistry and engineering, rather than being part of Yale College where students studied the liberal arts. I can always remove this info, but as far as I can tell, the soceety continues to selecting students from the university's difference school today. Thus, this was a templatef for the organizations since its beginnings. In terms of gainig more insight into the nuances of UVa, I will add a See also link the the university's history. Rublamb (talk) 18:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Colors? Symbols?

Pretty easy to guess that Black is one of the colors of the Society, and that the Raven and the quill are likely symbols. But is there citable confirmation of these for the infobox? Jax MN (talk) 17:07, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote to the Society just now to inquire about these. Jax MN (talk) 17:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its constitution specifies that the raven is its emblem. In my mind, an emblem equals a symbol, but we can wait for their confirmation. Rublamb (talk) 18:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]