Talk:Records of members of parliament of the United Kingdom

Oldest Debuts in Commons

There is one record I wondered about. John Hughes (English politician), who died a few months ago, only became an MP at 62, he was probably one of the oldest first-time MPs in recent years. I see Samuel Young, the oldest MP, only became an MP at 70, probably the all-time record. Does Hughes hold the record as the oldest first-time MP for some time? PatGallacher (talk) 11:24, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hughes was fairly old but by no means exceptional. The records you are looking for can be found here.

UK_general_election_records#Oldest_general_election_victors

UK_by-election_records#Oldest_by-election_victors RodCrosby (talk) 12:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I have set up a category for Oldest Debut, kicking off with the case (cited to his History of Parliament Online article) of Warren Lisle (currently unarticled in Wikipedia) elected at a reported age of 85 at the 1780 General Election, although his precise birthdate is not known. This leaves others free to introduce oldest debuts at later elections that unlike Lisle's case may have the authenticating benefit of civil birth certification introduced in the 19th century.Cloptonson (talk) 21:01, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I have found perhaps the oldest authenticated contender in Henry Bruce Armstrong who was 76 years and 331 days old (assuming 1921 was not a leap year) when returned at by-election for Mid Armagh in 1921.Cloptonson (talk) 22:47, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I have discovered today Armstrong was beaten by the case of Sir Robert Pullar who became MP for Perth at the age of 79 years less 6 days in a by-election in 1907.Cloptonson (talk) 21:21, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

former members?

I notice some users are including people who had ceased to be members at the time of the "record." I suggest this is inappropriate. RodCrosby (talk) 18:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I notice this has gone unheeded. This article is about records of Members of Parliament. It is not a collection of interesting facts about people who once happened to be a Member of Parliament... RodCrosby (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Irene Ward

I've no knowledge of the subject outside this article, but there seems to be some math problems. If Ms. Ward had served continuously, from her election in 1931 through 1974, she would have served for 43 or 44 years. With five years not serving in the House, she would be hard pressed to achieve 42 years of service. Her article puts it at 38 years.Czrisher (talk) 21:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Definition of Major Party

• In the list of ethnic minority MPs the second asian MP, elected in 1895, is described as the first from a major party. However when the Liberal first asian MP served, in 1892-1895, the Liberals were the government party. Surely it is looking at things wrongly to classify the pre-1918 Liberal Party as anything but a major party. --Gary J (talk) 12:32, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Ethnics

Jonathan Sayeed was Anglo-Indian, but never referred to himself as a member of the ethnic minorities. Should he be included? RodCrosby (talk) 13:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Is there a reason why ethnic Jewish members are not recorded in the list of Ethnic Minority MPs? Do racial Jews not classify as 'ethnic minority' to Britain? (Not Jewish myself.) Sir Manasseh Lopes potentially qualifies as the first Jewish blooded member of the UK Parliament (first elected 1802 for New Romney after converting to Christianity within the preceding 12 months.Cloptonson (talk) 12:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

This page began, initially, with records going back to circa 1945/1918/1900, at any rate long after the emancipation of the Jews, so that explains their omission. I see you are starting to include 'records' from the early 18th century, e.g. comebacks, which may not be records in any meaningful sense, as such things were commonplace then. Discretion is advised. While your efforts are welcome, this page could get very large indeed, with essentially trivial information. Also beware of WP:OR. If you can find a reference about Lopez, perhaps he could be included? RodCrosby (talk) 16:20, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Lopes (correct spelling) appears in the List of British Jewish politicians but there is no claim in the table or in his Wikipedia biography that he was a first to sit at Westminster, although his entry into the Commons was not long after the Act of Union between Great Britain and Ireland.Cloptonson (talk) 19:06, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

I have discovered Lopes had a predecessor in Sampson Gideon, son of Jewish banker Sampson Gideon, who was born 1744, changing his surname to Eardley in 1789, the year he was also raised to peerage as Baron Eardley of Spalding in Irish peerage. He entered Parliament as MP for Cambridgeshire in 1770. (Having been brought up Church of England from childhood.)Cloptonson (talk) 22:13, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

As of today Naoroji, in 1892, is stated "First Asian MP" but did he not have predecessors who might temper the claim, if not displace it? David Ochterlony Dyce Sombre, an Anglo-Indian raised on the subcontinent, was MP for Sudbury 1841-42 (unseated by petition), and Alexander Raphael is confidently stated to be the first British Armenian in our Parliament having sat as a Liberal for County Carlow June-August 1835 (unseated by petition), and as a Tory for St Albans from 1847 to his death (1850). I give opportunity for reply before presuming to alter the table.Cloptonson (talk) 19:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

UK parliament and English parliament

A definition of UK parliament needs to be added to this article. At the moment it confuses UK and English Parliaments, but if it is going to do that then does that mean it should also include pre-union Irish and Scottish parliaments? Instead perhaps the page should be moved to "Records of members of parliament of the England and United Kingdom". -- PBS (talk) 03:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for Certain Tables

Having lately added a couple of MPs who died in accidents to the particular table, would it be possible to rearrange the tables relating to MPs who died in accidents, committed suicide, were murdered, or were executed be arranged either in alphabetical surname order or in chronological death year order?Cloptonson (talk) 22:25, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I have chronologised the list of MPs who died on wartime active service pre World Wars.Cloptonson (talk) 14:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC) the list of MPs who died as result of accidents.Cloptonson (talk) 19:34, 24 August 2013 (UTC) the list of MPs who committed suicide.Cloptonson (talk) 05:49, 27 August 2013 (UTC)and the list of MPs who were murdered.Cloptonson (talk) 21:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC) I have chronologised the bulk of list of MPs who were executed, died in prison or as fugitives from justice, leaving the Regicides of Charles I lumped together for later chronological harmonizing within the list.Cloptonson (talk) 20:36, 15 September 2013 (UTC) The Regicides have been absorbed within the list according to chronological death order. One name, Sir Richard Ingoldsby, has been removed because he was pardoned and did not die in the criteria laid down by the table's title.Cloptonson (talk) 20:34, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Ellen Wilkinson - alleged suicide

I notice Ellen Wilkinson is listed among MPs who committed suicide. Despite allegations mentioned in the Wikipedia article she committed suicide over private life concerns with Herbert Morrison, the selfsame article acknowledges it was officially (via coroner inquest) ruled an accidental overdose. (A not unknown occurrence in a society, pre-NHS, where self-medication had been encouraged.) Surely one should follow law, not rumour.Cloptonson (talk) 13:44, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Brian Harrison, her biographer in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, considers the overdose was "almost certainly accidental", and was taken when she was ill with multiple respiratory ailments.Cloptonson (talk) 06:43, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I've removed her from the list, as it seems the majority of sources do not consider it suicide. Andrew Gray (talk) 12:07, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Members who have made more than one comeback

I propose the list should be read, from the most recent first comeback year backwards, and that the order be based on first year of comeback. I am therefore rearranging the list where necessary, which should be a helpful guide to users after me who have additions to make. (I have added Alfred Billson and Arthur Griffith-Boscawen who both made double comebacks to the Commons.)Cloptonson (talk) 14:09, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

The list was arranged in reverse chronological order of last comeback, which makes more sense. Since it refers to the unusual scenario of more than one comeback, listing it by first comeback rather defeats the purpose. RodCrosby (talk) 02:34, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Members lost at sea

I have added to the list of those who died on active service in wartime the names of Admirals Sir Cloudesley Shovell and Sir Thomas Troubridge because, although the loss of their ships was through natural disaster, they took place within the context of a mobilized fleet during time of major wars.Cloptonson (talk) 20:31, 11 August 2013 (UTC) I originally added Henry Vansittart to list of MPs accidentally killed as he was passenger on ship lost at sea in 1770, but have entered him in the list of MPs who have disappeared, and withdrawn his details from the first list, on reflection that he might have died of sickness aboard ship and been buried at sea before the ship was lost, or that the ship might have been sunk by piracy rather than natural disaster. The ship was lost with all hands.Cloptonson (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Members who were physically disabled

As guidance for future users, I added greatly to this list applying as 'goalposts':

• The disability occurred before election, or during their office more than a month before it ended.
• I avoided listing those whose disabilities occurred after service in parliament.
• I also avoided listing those whose disabilities (eg limb loss) occurred in incidents immediately causing their deaths eg accidents, murders, battle wounds, executions, suicides.Cloptonson (talk) 21:23, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

• I'm interested that MPs with Type I Diabetes such as Theresa May are not listed as physically disabled. Is there a reason for this? Mattwardman (talk)
  • I personally don't consider diabetes a disability but a health condition that can give rise to disabilities like blindness and loss of limbs. Does the law have anything to say on it in regard to registered disabilities?Cloptonson (talk) 17:51, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

New List - MPs who died as wartime civilian casualties

To complement the lists of those who died on active service in wartime, I have started a new list of those former MPs (I have yet to find one who was in office at time of death) who died as civilian casualties in war. For benefit of others the criteria are deaths caused by air raid, ship sinking or plane crash due to enemy action, or in enemy captivity (not as service POWs). I have 'kicked off' with Alfred Raper (ship sinking) and the 3rd Earl of Kimberley (air raid death) from World War II.Cloptonson (talk) 18:24, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I would add to the criteria civilians working in support of the military. I have moved to the list (from that of MPs who died on wartime active service Pre-World Wars) Matthew Wren, sitting MP for Mitchell (Cornwall), mortally wounded at Battle of Solebay in 1672 when accompanying the Lord High Admiral Duke of York (later King James II) as his secretary. He held no military or naval rank and could be classed on same footing as a civil servant working in support of armed forces.Cloptonson (talk) 12:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Sinn Fein MPs elected to Westminster 1918

Following the precedent set by the inclusion of Liam Mellows among the list of UK MPs who died in prison/were executed, I have added to certain lists those of his partisans in the same tranche that did not take their seats after election in December 1918, of whom 2 (notably Michael Collins) were murdered, 2 died in accidents and 5 died in prison (under British and Irish Free State control). Four were technically still serving (though non-sitting) Westminster MPs at the time of their deaths.Cloptonson (talk) 21:37, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

New category - Shortest-lived MPs

I have introduced a category on Shortest-lived MPs, immediately following the section on Longest-lived ex-MPs, declaring as contender James Wriothesley, Lord Wriothesley, who died aged 19 as MP for Winchester while on military service in 1624. I am open to others introducing any they have found to rival his example, and I welcome anyone giving the shortest-lived since the election age was set at 21.Cloptonson (talk) 21:54, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

In answer to question regarding contenders for shortest-lived since 1832, I have found one in Thomas Leslie Teevan, MP for Belfast West 1950-51, who died 11 October 1954 aged 27 years and at least 72 days but precise age cannot be determined as his birth date in his Wikipedia article is only given as July 1927. I will give time for any lower age to be discovered before adding him to the section.Cloptonson (talk) 16:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

I have found a junior contender, who was killed in action in office, George Charles Grey (elected for Berwick-upon-Tweed 1941), who was aged 25 years 240 days at death.Cloptonson (talk) 19:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Help - Unwanted Red Link

In the list of MPs who died as result of accidents, I have listed James Bruce, son of an Earl of Elgin, who was drowned in 1798 the year after he took the Chiltern Hundreds. Despite writing "James Bruce (1769-1798)", the name after two attempts to fix it remains red linked, implying wrongly that the page does not exist.Cloptonson (talk) 20:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I thank the user who has fixed the link.Cloptonson (talk) 22:04, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

"First Black MP" - Explain?

How can Bernie Grant be described in the table as "First Black MP" when he was returned at the same General Election of 1987 as two others also described as black, Paul Boateng and Diane Abbott? The claim is not echoed in his Wikipedia biography.Cloptonson (talk) 06:31, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

UK MPs who were Prime Ministers elsewhere in the Commonwealth

Recognising the traffic was not all one way (ex Commonwealth Prime Ministers coming to serve in the UK Parliament), I have changed the section title from "Former Commonwealth Prime Ministers" to "Former and Future Commonwealth Prime Ministers", having unearthed three former UK MPs who became PMs outside the UK - one in the Commonwealth of Victoria, Australia, and two in the former Irish Free State dominion.Cloptonson (talk) 22:54, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

William Smith O'Brien

I note that O'Brien is included in the list of MPs who were either executed, died in prison or as fugitives from justice, although he was pardoned and lived rest of his life a free man. I would not have included him as he did not die under the criteria set by the heading. So many former MPs through history underwent spells in prison for various reasons (mainly political) then came out of them with life and liberty intact that I fear a precedent of questionable desirability is being set here.Cloptonson (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

For guidance, my considered criteria would be:

• Being executed, in prison or elsewhere;
• Dying (disease, accident, or suicide) while in prison custody;
• Dying while under arrest pending trial, or before justice could be brought (eg some of the Regicides of Charles I), or as proceedings were being brought against them, or were posthumously punished;
• Dying at large (usually in exile) having evaded arrest or proceedings, escaped custody and not been recaptured or pardoned; or
• Dying while proceedings took place in their absence.Cloptonson (talk) 22:29, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
• I would also be inclined to add dying on parole (such a person would still legally be a prisoner -albeit allowed liberty- serving sentence).Cloptonson (talk) 12:48, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Seeing no objections or other comments about William Smith O'Brien, I have (after 7 years) deleted him from the table for the reasons I gave.Cloptonson (talk) 20:39, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Nirj Deva

In the table list of Ethnic Minority MPs, Deva is described in the last column as whilst in parliament [1992-97] was the second Asian-Born MP. I propose to delete the description because it is incorrect on several counts:

• Of the three Asian MPs (all born on the continent - India, Sri Lanka, Aden) in the Commons at the time, he was the first born (1948);
• The three earlier Asian MPs in the table (Naoroji, Bhownagree and Saklatvala) were all born in Asia (India).
• "Asian-born" could be applied to those British-nationality MPs (eg William Kenyon-Slaney and Fenner Brockway) born in the continent (usually when fathers were running businesses or government, or serving as military or missionaries in India and other British colonies);

I have decided to substitute the more specific description of "First Sri Lankan born MP".Cloptonson (talk) 22:44, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed new Record Category - Shortest Delay before making a Comeback

It may be interesting to give a record for Shortest Delay before making a Comeback to the House of Commons. I have found so far nothing to beat the 22 days in 2008 in the case of David Davis, who forced a test by-election by a resignation that took effect in June and was then re-elected at that by-election in July for his current seat of Haltemprice and Howden. Speed is very much dependent on procedures and the pace of transport and communication at the time. Longer timescales may obtain in the case of Members who return at a by-election after losing a previous seat at the preceding General Election.Cloptonson (talk) 13:31, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

I think Churchill in 1908 was 15 days, and I'm sure I've also seen examples of around a week's gap. RodCrosby (talk) 15:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

I have checked the Wikipedia article on the 1908 Dundee by-election which does not give a date for the polling day. It states he lost the Manchester North-West by-election on 24 April and that in the run-up to the unstated polling day at Dundee he was making a major speech on 14 May - making the total at least 20 days. Interestingly, 100 years separates his case and that of David Davis.Cloptonson (talk) 22:41, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

How about Gladstone losing in 1868 in South West Lancashire (replacement for his previous seat), then getting elected - I believe - a few days later in his back-up seat of Greenwich? Warofdreams talk 01:44, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

This is difficult (for me) to count as a comeback after losing a seat; it depends on the polling days in the respective constituencies of the general election concerned, he was standing as candidate for the two constituencies in the same election. (When did it become standard for polling days to be on one day only throughout the country?) When I proposed this category I had not considered that factor (commoner in previous centuries than the 20th and the present). You may have opened up a moot point here. At the end of the day what is being looked for is a break in service as MP with specific dates.Cloptonson (talk) 22:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

A single election day was adopted in 1918. Other possibilities for short breaks would be uncontested ministerial by-elections and uncontested by-elections resulting from a resignation to recontest. For example, it seems George Shaw-Lefevre was appointed on 18 August 1892 and re-elected unopposed on 23 August. Warofdreams talk 00:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The problem with this category is that norms changed significantly. What would be startling now was often commonplace, 100, 150, 200 years ago, and so can hardly be classed a 'record', in context. It's in danger of becoming a collection of useless trivia. Discretion advised. There are some fairly obvious points of reference which can be used as cutoff points, 1945, 1918, 1885, 1832. It's a bit ridiculous to combine 'records' of say the 17th Century with those of the present day. RodCrosby (talk) 01:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Sir John Clere (c.1511-1557) - link help wanted

In the list of MPs who died on wartime active service, table Pre-World Wars, I have added Vice-Admiral Sir John Clere, veteran of three constituencies, who drowned in an Anglo-Scottish sea battle in the Orkneys in 1557. His fuller details can be found in his History of Parliament Online website, which is also cited with link in his presently scant Wikipedia article, which gives little more than birth-death years and lists his seats. I have unsuccessfully tried to link him with his Wikipedia article in his table entry; it currently shows as a red link, incorrectly implying no page exists.Cloptonson (talk) 22:01, 2 July 2016 (UTC) (belated or reinstated signature)

I thank whoever the user was who successfully fixed the link.Cloptonson (talk) 22:01, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Longest Delay Before Making Comeback - newly discovered records

Through his History of Parliament Online article I have discovered a potential contender for the absolute longest single delay who predates the 20th century, in Richard Spencer whose interval lasted 32 years and 57 days (1629-1661). The gap was enhanced by the decade of Charles I's personal rule without parliament, but is appreciable given the short life expectancy of the time. William Allen's 31 years (1900-1931) can stand as the longest since the establishment of regular parliamentary government since the end of the 17th century.Cloptonson (talk) 22:19, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I have discovered Sir William Ayscough had an interval between twice serving as MP for Thirsk, also 32 years but a few more months longer than his contemporary Spencer's case.Cloptonson (talk) 19:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

A further trawl of MPs listed in the 1660-1690 volume of History of Parliament Online has turned up two MPS who each had 35 years between serving in the Commons - Edward Mainwaring (1625-1661) and Sir William Killgrew (1629-1664). Mainwaring currently has no article in Wikipedia. Cloptonson (talk) 18:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

William Allen's record, for a comeback interval since regular parliamentary government, is slightly beaten by that of Walter Hungerford who had an interval of 32 years and 158 days between the close of one parliament on 11 November 1701 and the assembling of his next on 18 April 1734, as MP for Calne. He is currently unarticled in Wikipedia, information from his History of Parliament Online article.Cloptonson (talk) 21:42, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Today I have discovered that Henry Drummond (1786-1860) had a gap of nearly 35 years between the end of his first parliament on 29 September 1812 and returning to parliament at the 1847 general election. I have rearranged information about Hungerford, Lytton and Allen (surpassed by Drummond) accordingly.Cloptonson (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Thomas Bruce, Earl of Ailesbury

I have decided to remove him from the list of MPs who died in prison, were executed or evaded justice on the grounds that he was arrested for the assassination plot in which he was involved (1696), was imprisoned - but then released, whereupon he went into exile. He had not evaded justice as the entry may imply. (Fuller particulars in his History of Parliament article, 1660-1690 volume.)Cloptonson (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Longest Delay Before Making a Comeback - Proposal to change range of years

Having made a further trawl of the History of Parliament Online and come across more MPs who had intervals outside the Commons of 20-30 years, and having discovered MPs who had been out for as long as 35 years, I propose to restrict the goalpost by taking out MPs who had only been out for under 20 years, with qualified exceptions of the cases of Leah Manning (longest interval out of Commons involving a woman MP - 13 years), James Patrick Mahon and Edward Herle (who, unusually, each had an interval of just under 20 and another of more than 20 years). I know most of the additions were by me, so it is a simple matter of withdrawal but I would like to warn users who may have added names.Cloptonson (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Exactly what I feared. Modern records, some very pertinent, will be deleted in the quest to wander through the mists of time. How far do you propose to go back? To 1265? Might I gently remind you that this article refers to the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which first came into existence in 1801... RodCrosby (talk) 21:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed new category - husband-wife sets of MPs

I am proposing a new category for this page on husband-wife sets of MPs (some sat consecutively, some concurrently). It could be a list in text or table form of such couples and a nomination of such factors as longest span in the House of Commons as a couple, collective years of service, shortest/longest intervals between a husband and wife being successively MP. Lady (Nancy) Astor set the ball rolling as her husband was an MP before herself, her arrival in the Commons being to succeed him after he went up to the House of Lords. I have so far not found any MP couples who married while concurrently serving in the Commons.Cloptonson (talk) 20:04, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I have kicked off, drawing on MP couples I have listed tonight, with contenders for firsts (successively - the Astors - and concurrently MP - the Mosleys), longest service as MPs in marriage and greatest collective years of service as MPs (Nicholas and Anne Winterton), longest span of service (Nye Bevan and Jennie Lee). If any grounds for correction are found I permit them to be made.Cloptonson (talk) 22:20, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

New entry: People who had been knighted or had received another substantial honour or order before first election

Look here.--The Theosophist (talk) 09:57, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Proposed new entry: Brother sets of MPs

Following part of the discussion with The Theosophist in the previous talk point - readable via Look here - I propose a new section relating to "Brother MPs", which could follow on from that on Husband-Wife Sets of MPs. Points from the discussion I share here are:

• I agree 1801 with the user as the cut-off point, with brother sets that ceased to serve before that year being omitted unless there is an 'all-time' record involved.
• Rather than listing all brother sets in this page, being commonplace, I propose the section be limited to highlighting such factors that could be looked for as:

• Largest (numerical) set of brothers (I suggest to other users look for more than trio sets) (if the largest all-time brother set was pre-1801, I am happy for that to be mentioned as a token nod to their existence).
• Greatest collective service of brothers in House of Commons (regardless of numbers).
• Longest representation of a constituency by more than one brother.
• Longest span of service by a brother set.
• Note any brother who lived to become Father of the House.
• Brothers currently serving in parliament.

As so many politicians came from noble families or were ennobled themselves, Burke's Peerage and similar reference works would be a good source to look into.Cloptonson (talk) 21:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC) Cloptonson (talk) 21:24, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I have discovered two sets of six brothers - the Knollys', who included the longest lived sitting member Francis - their overall service in the Commons spanned 1563 to Francis' death in 1648 (he is mentioned on this page), and the Pagets, who included the future 1st Marquess of Anglesey, whose overall Commons service spanned 1790 to 1834. Any larger sets, anyone?Cloptonson (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

LGBT people

Should there be a section for LGBT people? The argument that most homosexuals had to be “closeted” before the 1960s is certainly true, however we know of several pre-1960s instances like Oliver Baldwin, the Earl Beauchamp, Lewis Vernon Harcourt, Robert Bernays and perhaps many more.--The Traditionalist (talk) 22:53, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

BTW - Earl Beauchamp, who succeeded to his peerage early in life, was never in the House of Commons.Cloptonson (talk) 23:15, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Daniel Kawczynski height

This article, published 2014 and written by Alistair Lamyman for Total Politics, states Mr Kawczynski's height as 6 feet 9 inches tall.[1].Cloptonson (talk) 20:55, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Frank James

I notice (section on longest lived former MPs) that Theodore Cook-Taylor is given as the longest lived former MP but, later in the section, Frank James lived slightly longer. As is mentioned in the latter's Wikipedia article, James enjoyed a few months in parliament from his election at general election in July 1892, being unseated in November. It would surely be technically correct to put James forward as the longest-lived ex MP. He was also the first MP to achieve centenarian status, in the absence of earlier claimants.Cloptonson. (talk) 20:52, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

New category - father and son records

I have started a section relation to fathers and sons, presently confined to listing the less commonplace occurrences of sons who were elected before their fathers (one case made known to me) and fathers serving in the Commons simultaneously to one or more sons.Cloptonson (talk) 23:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Suggested offshoot pages

I have posted in the Politics of the United Kingdom project talk page a suggestion that offshoot pages from this, titled Records of members of the Parliament of England (for those in office until the Act of Union of 1707) and Records of members of the Parliament of Great Britain (for those who were in office in the rest of the 18th century until the Act of Union with Ireland). This would enable the wealth of information relating to pre-1801 MPs to be transferred from this page to those applying to the appropriate periods. (I write with no experience of creating pages myself.)Cloptonson (talk) 14:35, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Members who sat in parliaments outside the UK/Colonies

I've been working through the History of Parliament for Wikidata, and have come across two interesting oddities - Henry Cruger, MP 1774-80, 1784-90, and New York state senator 1792-96; and Francois de Viry (no WP article at the moment), aka 'Henry Speed', MP 1790-96 and then Member of the Assemblée nationale in France, 1815-16. I have not as yet found any others who held elected office outside the Commonwealth but I wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two others. Is it worth including them, distinct from the section on MPs who were later premiers of other Commonwealth countries? Andrew Gray (talk) 21:23, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

I could say 'yes' to that as long as it is clear that these overseas seats were/are in countries that were at the time of sitting outside what is now known as the British Commonwealth. Note that southern Ireland was part of the Commonwealth up to 1948 when the present Republic of Ireland came into its own, so there could have been members of the Oireachtas that had been UK Parliament members that were still sitting after 1948 (eg De Valera).Cloptonson (talk) 05:49, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

You may be interested to know I have found but five former UK MPs (albeit Sinn Fein abstentionists) who were all elected MPs in Westminster, but never sat, in the years 1918-22, that continued to sit in the Oireachtas as TDs post-1948; De Valera (1948-59), Richard Mulcahy (1948-61), Frank Fahy (1948-death in 1953), Sean MacEntee (1948-69) and James Ryan (1948-65). One current TD, since 2011, is Gerry Adams, previously MP for a NI constituency at Westminster.Cloptonson (talk) 19:50, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I think it is certainly of interest. Opera hat (talk) 21:21, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Religion firsts - suggested look up

Other users may like to find out first MPs to be elected who at the time were of the following, not yet listed on the page:

Moravians (at least one in 19C)

Swedenborgians (at least one in 19C)

Christian Scientists (earliest to my knowledge, Lady Astor, but did she have predecessors?)

Spiritualist Church members (at least one in in 20C)

Don't know if any practicing Buddhists have been elected, but it may be waiting to happen. Cloptonson (talk) 12:43, 26 November 2016 (UTC) Cloptonson (talk) 12:43, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I note there is now a Buddhist MP since 2015. Another 'first', with regard to general election victors, to look for is Eastern Orthodox Church; the first MP to be an adherent, the Honourable Frederick North, only became MP in a by-election in 1792 and never went through a general election.Cloptonson (talk) 06:25, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Duels

I note we have a section on duels listing Matthew Browne and John Townshend in 1603. It might be worth adding a notes column here - Browne and Townshend killed each other. I'm not sure if any of the others were killed by sitting/former/future MPs... Andrew Gray (talk) 13:03, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Records of members of parliament of the United Kingdom. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110607040710/http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0002/D.0002.192212080006.html to http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0002/D.0002.192212080006.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:42, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

"MPs who have sat for three or more different constituencies"

I've been doing a bit of work on this tonight using the Wikidata records. It's hard to say for sure when a boundary change is enough to constitute a new seat, but there are two cases of MPs with seven distinct seats: Tim Healy (politician) and Walter Long, 1st Viscount Long. (report

All but one of Healy's (Monaghan > North Monaghan) are distinct seats without a boundary change. For Long, I'm a little less sure, but I think Wilts North mostly became Devises, so that's a direct successor; Strand was adjacent to St George's but not a direct successor. So he's probably also six distinct seats, maybe five. I can run off a report of everyone with three or more for checking, if that would be of interest. Andrew Gray (talk) 20:25, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I've now run some more detailed numbers on this. Going purely by constituency names as distinct seats, 3-4% of MPs since 1832 have sat for three or more seats, but only ~0.5% sat for four or more. Even allowing for name changes while remaining functionally the same seat, "three or more" might produce quite a long list with a couple of hundred names - maybe we should raise the threshold to four here? (FWIW, before 1629, during which time boundary changes in the modern sense didn't really happen, 5-6% sat for three or more seats, 2.2% for four or more, and ~0.9% for five or more.) Andrew Gray (talk) 20:18, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Maybe so. I did wonder what the sources used on the article were, given it includes MPs who have sat for Irish seats. I certainly think the list should group the MPs by how many seats they've represented - ie. Healy and Long (5-7?), then those with four seats, etc.--TrottieTrue (talk) 16:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Youngest since 1832

It seems there was someone elected in the 1832 general election who may have been younger than the records stated here - William Charles Wentworth-FitzWilliam, elected at Malton. This election followed the Reform Act, so seems to qualify under the cut-off of "since the Reform Act of 1832".

He was born on 18th January 1812 (contemporary announcement; obituary), which would have made him approximately 20 years and 11 months old at the time of election - exactly how old depends exactly when the polling for Malton was in 1832. This wouldn't be younger than Mhairi Black in 2015, but it would be younger than the person we give as the previous record (James Dickson (Irish politician) in 1880), by about three months. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:34, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

There's some more notes on this from the History of Parliament here. I'll try and fix this up tomorrow. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:36, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

This article says the age of candidacy was lowered from 21 to 18 in 1970, which contradicts the article on the Electoral Administration Act 2006. Opera hat (talk) 18:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Fact retired - oldest sitting female MP

I have removed this self-contradicting and uncited statement from the 'Oldest' section because Ann Clwyd last year (December 2019) ceased to be a serving MP: "The oldest serving female MP is Ann Clwyd (born 21 March 1937), MP for Cynon Valley from 1984 to 2019." However I would be happy to see it being reinstated if anyone can provide proof she was the oldest sitting MP of all time before that general election. Cloptonson (talk) 20:25, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Longest-lived MP

Now that Ronald Atkins has died, who takes the title of oldest living former MP? The article only says that the oldest living female is Jill Knight, who is 97. Robert Lindsay, at 94, is the earliest elected former MP who is still living. According to List of centenarians (politicians and civil servants), there are no British politicians who are currently alive at over 100 years of age. The House of Commons Library listing from 2019 has every living former MP on it - except those in the Lords!, without any dates of birth, alas, so it's a bit difficult to go through.

Having gone through the list and got as far as Patrick Duffy, his Wikipedia page claims he is now the oldest-living former MP, aged 102. So I've added him to the list of centenarians for politicians, which he was missing from.

The following are living and aged over 90 (as of 15 July 2023 - updated since April 2021):

• Patrick Duffy, born (1920-06-17) 17 June 1920
• Terence Higgins, Baron Higgins, born (1928-01-18) 18 January 1928
• Elizabeth Shields, born (1928-02-27) 27 February 1928
• Sally Oppenheim-Barnes, born (1928-07-26) 26 July 1928
• Dick Taverne, born (1928-10-18) 18 October 1928
• Bill Rodgers, Baron Rodgers of Quarry Bank, born (1928-10-28) 28 October 1928
• Bill O'Brien, born (1929-01-25) 25 January 1929
• Lawrence Cunliffe, born (1929-03-29) 29 March 1929
• Peter Hordern, born (1929-04-18) 18 April 1929
• Patrick McNair-Wilson, born (1929-05-29) 29 May 1929
• John Hannam, born (1929-08-02) 2 August 1929
• Roy Roebuck, born (1929-09-25) 25 September 1929
• Edwin Brooks, born (1929-12-01) 1 December 1929
• Roger Sims, born (1930-01-27) 27 January 1930
• Doug Hoyle, born (1930-02-17) 17 February 1930
• Douglas Hurd, born (1930-03-08) 8 March 1930
• Andrew Bowden, born (1930-04-08) 8 April 1930
• Alan Lee Williams, born (1930-11-29) 29 November 1930
• Michael Jopling, born (1930-12-10) 10 December 1930
• Norman Tebbit, born (1931-03-29) 29 March 1931
• John Sutcliffe, born (1931-04-30) 30 April 1931
• Michael Brotherton, born (1931-05-26) 26 May 1931
• Martin Smyth, born (1931-06-15) 15 June 1931
• Shirley Summerskill, born (1931-09-09) 9 September 1931
• Neville Trotter, born (1932-01-27) 27 January 1932
• John Nott, born (1932-02-01) 1 February 1932
• Dennis Skinner, born (1932-02-11) 11 February 1932
• Peter Trew, born (1932-04-30) 30 April 1932
• Tim Sainsbury, born (1932-06-11) 11 June 1932
• John Wakeham, born (1932-06-22) 22 June 1932
• Stratton Mills, born (1932-07-01) 1 July 1932
• Neil Thorne, born (1932-08-08) 8 August 1932
• Patrick Ground, born (1932-08-09) 9 August 1932
• Eric Deakins, (1932-10-07) 7 October 1932
• Allan Rogers, born (1932-10-24) 24 October 1932
• Joe Hendron, born (1932-11-12) 12 November 1932
• Alf Dubs, Baron Dubs, born (1932-12-05) 5 December 1932
• Roy Hattersley, born (1932-12-28) 28 December 1932
• Michael Heseltine, born (1933-03-21) 21 March 1933
• Llin Golding, Baroness Golding, born (1933-03-21) 21 March 1933
• Eric Clarke, born (1933-04-09) 9 April 1933
• David Knox, born (1933-05-30) 30 May 1933
• Tom King, Baron King of Bridgwater born (1933-06-13) 13 June 1933
• David Winnick born (1933-06-26) 26 June 1933

Turning 90 in 2023: John Carson (born 31 July 1933); Jim Pawsey (born 21 August 1933); Ken Weetch (born 17 September 1933); Fred Silvester (born 20 September 1933); Joe Benton (born 28 September 1933); John Cartwright (born 29 November 1933).

The oldest living former Lib Dem MP is Brian Cotter, Baron Cotter born (1936-08-24) 24 August 1936

--TrottieTrue (talk) 03:23, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

• ADDENDUM: since my earlier posts, User:Andrew Gray has created List of living former United Kingdom MPs, which will help us to keep track of these records. The complete DOBs do need adding though, with references, so if anyone can help with that, it would be appreciated.--TrottieTrue (talk) 18:50, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

For future reference, Mary Holt died on 17 February 2021. Emk9 (talk) 02:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. I’ve removed her from the list. These deaths of lesser-remembered former MPs are easily missed by me, as I don’t regularly scour the obituaries. — TrottieTrue (talk) 11:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Stan Newens died 2 March. I'll just remove him and any future deaths from the list. Emk9 (talk) 20:18, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Feel free to, but I’d be interested to know who they are - I hadn’t heard of Newens’ death. I wonder if I missed out anyone else coming up to 90. It’s a pity there isn’t a House of Commons database with this info or something similar. Thanks for your interest in this topic. TrottieTrue (talk) 00:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I am deleting Ben Ford who died in 1922 aged 97 and Ken Eastham who died this year.Cloptonson (talk) 19:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to delete anyone from the list where necessary. I haven't looked at it for a while. TrottieTrue (talk) 21:08, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Norman Tebbit is nearly 90 too (end of March). TrottieTrue (talk) 01:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Newens death was only added to Deaths in 2021 a few hours before I removed him here, so that might be why you hadn't seen anything on it yet. I'll be sure to comment here (and I can ping you if you want) whenever I remove anyone. Emk9 (talk) 02:51, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@TrottieTrue: Robert Howarth died 2 April. Emk9 (talk) 20:01, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

@Emk9: Thanks for the update, and for editing my list. You might want to have a look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom discussion about my proposal to create a list article with living former MPs. User:Andrew Gray is preparing the article for publication, which would make future updates of this particular record easier.--TrottieTrue (talk) 21:12, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, that’s fine. I suppose I should read the Guardian obituaries section more often. Realistically the future record for oldest living former MP (male or female) is likely to be held by someone at the top of the list, rather than anyone near the bottom (who might have just reached 90). So I think noting anyone 89+ now is probably enough for now, until someone produces a database with dates of birth for all former MPs! TrottieTrue (talk) 11:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

The list has now been double-checked for any surviving MPs over 89 - there shouldn't be anyone missing now. There were a couple over 90 I had inadvertently missed before (probably because I was originally just looking for the very oldest, who were in their mid-to-late 90s, not early 90s). A Wikipedia list article of living former MPs would be great, but a big undertaking. Maybe someone can use my research above as a starting point. Patrick Duffy may well be the only person living who stood at the 1950 general election, and I doubt any candidates from earlier elections are alive. --TrottieTrue (talk) 17:38, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@TrottieTrue: For what it's worth, I've been keeping tabs on this in Wikidata, though there are some discrepancies around exact dates of birth (eg for Sally Oppenheim-Barnes, WP has 1928 and WD has 1930), as exact ages/birthdates for former MPs can get a bit murky and sources are often inconsistent. However, in case it's helpful...

This list should give all living current + former MPs plus approximate age (some people are only listed by year, not day, and those calculate from 1 Jan). A couple of people with two recorded birthdates are in twice, but duplicates aside, I make it 1074 living former MPs (plus 650 currently sitting). For recent changes, this list has every death of a former MP in the current calendar year. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:00, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: Thank you, that's great. Although a pity I didn't see it sooner, as I spent hours manually checking each person on the House of Commons list of living former MPs against their Wiki entry, then the same with the House of Lords members Wiki list. On the positive side, I edited many Wiki articles for those living former MPs (which is out of date, hence some are now dead), so a number of them are improved.

I also edited the Lords list, so that it now has a note next to each former MP in the Notes column stating that (it didn't before). I decided to double check my list above earlier to make sure I had everyone over 89 on it. I used the Who's Who search facility (free access via my local library), which seems pretty useful apart from them having no birth date for Jill Knight and the wrong year for Sally Oppenheim-Barnes (the consensus for the latter seems to be 1928, not 1930).

I've also used WW for adding dates of birth to a few past and present MPs - I think someone removed the DOBs that were unsourced. It seems my list above does match yours, which is good to know. I think a Wiki list article of every living former MP would be a good idea. I notice that a load of current MPs have no DOB on your list. I've checked them on WW and nearly all have no DOB there either (a couple have a year, and have been amended). --TrottieTrue (talk) 21:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@TrottieTrue: I'm sorry I didn't spot it in time to save you the effort! But as you say, good to have independently gone through all the articles. Data for this recent intake has been surprisingly hard to get hold of (which is annoying, I had been wanting to do some stats on age & experience etc). Parliament produce a dataset, but it seems to be a bit hit-and-miss, and often differs from other sources; Who's Who is ultimately user-contributed, and I think if you leave a section blank they won't print it, which might explain some of the omissions. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: I can’t promise I’ve checked all the articles for living former MPs, but a good number of them have been copy edited. The number of current MPs without a DOB is fairly low, and I would imagine will be complete in time. Indeed, my guess as to why Jill Knight has no DOB at WW is that she purposely didn’t want it published, perhaps being a lady of a certain age who is coy about such things. I have pointed out the omission to WW though (and the Sally OB correction), as her DOB is readily available elsewhere. Interesting to note that the youngest living former MP is Stuart Donaldson, aged 29. I wonder if he could be the youngest MP to have lost his seat (aged just 25 in 2017). Dennis Skinner must be one of the oldest unseated MPs (87 in December 2019).—TrottieTrue (talk) 15:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@TrottieTrue: I think the youngest record is a lot lower. I've only looked here at the age they were when they finally ended their parliamentary careers, so there may well be someone who lost a seat very young but came back. However, the age limit of 21 was mostly adhered to after the Reform Act, and so they'd have to have been quite unlucky to beat the first of these:

• Reginald Greville-Nugent, unseated on petition (did not contest by-election) on 11 April 1870, aged 21
• John Jervis (MP for Horsham), unseated on petition (did not contest by-election) on 23 March 1848, aged (approximately) 22
• Henry Handcock, contested but lost his seat at the 1857 general election, aged 22
• Philip Clarke (politician), unseated on petition (opponent deemed elected) on 2 September 1955, aged 22
• Charles Noel, 2nd Earl of Gainsborough, contested but lost his seat at the 1841 general election, aged 22

There are also a couple who inherited titles aged 22 and lost their seats that way, which feels like it doesn't count in quite the same way.

For oldest, I think it is indeed Dennis Skinner. William Hodgson Barrow, Sir Isaac Holden, 1st Baronet, and Winston Churchill all were older than him when they stood down at dissolution, but they did not then contest their seats. If you're curious, this is the (very convoluted) report - it lists the final reason everyone's careers ended, and their age at that point, in days and years. People whose birthdate is only known to the year are treated as 1 Jan, and those without birthdates are missed out. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: Thanks for the detailed reply. If these lists are all your work, then I take my hat off to you, sir - great stuff. Henry Handcock and Charles Noel would appear to be contenders for the youngest MPs to lose their seat at an election. I'm not surprised Dennis Skinner is likely to be the oldest MP (at 87) to lose their seat (though I note David Winnick was 83 at the previous election when he lost). I sorted the list by date: I assume it only goes back to the 19th century - there may be a reason for this, but I'm not knowledgeable on that period. The most recent MP is Jeremy Corbyn, though, who remains in Parliament, without the Labour whip. So his parliamentary career hasn't ended. I worked out that it would just about be possible for someone to be an ex-MP at the age of 21 now: they would have had to have been selected just after turning 18 (born 1999) during the period after the 2017 snap general election was called, and then elected that June. They could then have lost their seat in December 2019, aged 20, with a 21st birthday in spring 2020... so they'd be about to turn 22 soon. All hypothetical, but it appears that most of the current youngest ex-MPs represented Scottish seats. Owing to the unusual frequency of general elections in the last six years, and the turbulent nature of Scottish politics in that time, several are former MPs under the age of 40. Danielle Rowley seems to have been the only other MP who was unseated in 2019 when under 30. Of course, the fact that Scottish parties have had a propensity to choose young candidates is also a contributing factor. FYI, of the Top 10 youngest former MPs, Laura Pidcock, Ben Howlett and Gareth Snell are the only non-Scots. Like those much older examples, it would still be possible for a young candidate to win at a by-election and then lose the seat at a general election called not long after (which is how Jane Dodds ended up the shortest-serving female MP in history). And is it just me, or are there an unusually high number of under-30s in Parliament now - 14? I count 18 under-30s elected to Parliament in 2019 - although we are still missing dates of birth for a number of others, some of who must be potential additions. --TrottieTrue (talk) 03:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

@TrottieTrue: Aha! Thanks for spotting that - I had tweaked the code to take account of a very rare edge case (someone elected for two seats in their final term) but in doing so introduced a bug which makes it confused by a somewhat more common one (people who have changed parties during the current term). I think this revised version should do it - it now has only one career ending after 2019, today's resignation of Mike Hill.

And thankyou! The data is mostly imported from elsewhere (Hansard & the History of Parliament) but I've been working on manually cleaning it over the past couple of years (d:Wikidata:WikiProject British Politicians). It's validated (for dates & seats, parties are patchier) back to 1885 and then "basically complete but with issues" back to 1820, with some patches of decent coverage in earlier centuries. As you noted, the way this particular query is set up only returns post-1800 MPs, but as the data's patchy before 1820 this isn't much of an issue.

In terms of overall ages, hmm. This report is every general election since 1950, the number of members with birthdates, the number under 30, and the average age overall & per party. "Age" is an approximate figure for simplicity's sake (rounded as year of election minus year of birth) but good enough for the moment. You can see that the last few elections do have a decent number of under-30s, even with the fact that we're missing a couple of dozen people in the most recent cohort, and the last election is definitely unusual. However, the overall averages have been pretty stable for a long time. Andrew Gray (talk) 18:43, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Glad to be of help! Presumably the end date for Mike Hill will be altered. Very interesting on the report for ages of MPs since 1950, thank you. Yes, the average age has been remarkably stable, ranging between 49 and 51. The number under 30 elected in 2019 (18) does seem to be the highest since 1950, so it isn't just me thinking along the lines of "coppers are getting younger"! Odd that before the 2010s, only 1959 has under-30s in double figures. It would be interesting to expand this data to include 1945, to fully cover the post-war period. Okay, I decided to research further the names on your list who were missing a birth date. Many months and years of birth are at Companies House (I've added some to their Wiki articles). Taiwo Owatemi can be added to the under-30s list, being 27 when elected. Angela Richardson - drawing a blank, but her bio suggests she was over 30 when elected. Abena Oppong-Asare - nothing, and could be a candidate. Mark Logan - ditto. According to Vote 2012, Neil Hudson was born in 1969, Holly Mumby-Croft in 1983 and Kate Griffiths in 1971. The ones lacking a DOB on your Wikidata list were over 30 when elected, and should now have an approximate DOB on their Wiki entries. Late edit: I've looked at Free BMD and Ancestry, and Abena Oppong-Asare appears to have been born circa March 1983. So she's not one of the under-30s. Mark Logan appears to have been born between 1984-1986, based on electoral register info at Ancestry, which would count him out. Angela Richardson - probably born between 1972 and 1974, again based on electoral registers. The latter two were born outside England and Wales, so cannot be double-checked at Free BMD. Still, it does at least mean we know who the under-30s were (19 were elected in 2019). I've asked David Boothroyd if he can supply more accurate information for your list. TrottieTrue (talk) 16:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Got a reply from David Boothroyd. He has the Times Guide to the House of Commons 2019, which actually has a number of those missing dates (it isn't cheap, but I'm surprised no other editors had a copy to extract the info from). I've added a referenced DOB for Abena Oppong-Asare, Angela Richardson, Mark Logan, Sarah Owen, Steven Bonnar, Mark Eastwood, James Grundy and Tom Randall. So now your Wikidata list is missing the exact DOB for Alicia Kearns, John Finucane (born March 1980 - this edit has been reverted because a user objected to me using Companies House as a source), Taiwo Owatemi, Sarah Dines, Andy Carter, James Daly, Felicity Buchan, Holly Mumby-Croft (no Wiki date - born July 1983, lacking reference), David Simmonds, Kate Griffiths (no Wiki date, born 1971, unreferenced) and Neil Hudson (no Wiki date, born 1969, unreferenced). Other than those noted, they do at least have a year and in some cases a month of birth on their Wiki article.--TrottieTrue (talk) 00:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• Ronald Thomas appears to have died, according to edits his son has made to his article. There are no media sources for this news though.--TrottieTrue (talk) 05:59, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed new fact: MPs who have sat for more than one nation in the UK

Might this be worth adding? Over at WikiProject:Politics of the United Kingdom, someone asked if any MPs have represented seats in more than one country of the UK - meaning England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as things currently stand. The answer is of course, yes, and I'd like to see it added to this article. Based on "MPs who have sat for three or more different constituencies", there's only one MP who has represented three of the four nations. No-one has done all four. That list includes the following MPs who have represented seats in more than one nation of the UK (including some from Ireland before independence):

• Michael Ancram (Scotland: Berwick and East Lothian, Edinburgh South; England: Devizes)
• Sir Winston Churchill (England: Oldham, Manchester North West, Epping, Woodford; Scotland: Dundee)
• George Galloway (Scotland: Glasgow Hillhead/Kelvin; England: Bethnal Green and Bow, Bradford West)
• William Ewart Gladstone (England: Newark, Oxford University, South Lancashire, Greenwich; Scotland: Midlothian)
• Edward Hemmerde (Wales: East Denbighshire; England: North West Norfolk, Crewe)
• Walter Long (England: Wiltshire North, Devizes, Liverpool West Derby, Bristol South, Strand, Westminster St George's; Ireland: Dublin County South)
• Ramsay MacDonald (England: Leicester, Seaham; Wales: Aberavon; Scotland: Combined Scottish Universities)
• Sir Robert Peel (Ireland: Cashel; England: Chippenham, Oxford University, Westbury, Tamworth)
• Frank Soskice (England: Birkenhead East, Sheffield Neepsend; Wales: Newport)
• John Strachey (England: Aston; Scotland: Dundee, Dundee West)

There's others, who are not on that list, because they only represented two different seats, but both were in different nations - these are a few I've found:

• Michael Foot (England: Plymouth Devonport, Wales: Blaenau Gwent)
• Roy Jenkins (England: Birmingham Stechford, Scotland: Glasgow Hillhead)
• Enoch Powell (England: Wolverhampton South West, Northern Ireland: South Down)
• Keir Hardie (England: West Ham South; Wales: Merthyr Tydfil)
• Geraint Davies (England: Croydon Central; Wales: Swansea West) - the only current MP to have sat for more than one nation
• Malcolm Rifkind (Scotland: Edinburgh Pentlands; England: Kensington and Chelsea, Kensington)

Maybe the two who represented the present-day Republic of Ireland could be included separately from the others? Or perhaps the list should be limited to the present-day four nations of the UK. If anyone can add to this list to make it complete, I'm happy to add it to the article.--TrottieTrue (talk) 00:59, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, it's interesting. But we will need to be careful about just dumping a list of MPs without enough citations and proof, and without it looking like a text dump of indiscriminate facts. Wikipedia is not a repository of every last piece of trivia and factoids. If we can find citations and proof that this information is factual and important enough, we can add it. doktorb _words^deeds 08:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

True, but I’m not sure every other record on the article has citations. Or whether it’s necessarily less trivial than other records listed. Many of the records do require “original research” because the facts change all the time. I imagine some of us can’t get enough of these factoids, but of course we can’t include everything. TrottieTrue (talk) 14:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Not saying yes or no, but it seems veterans of seats in two nations are more commonplace (examples that occur to me - Teddy Taylor in Scotland (Glasgow Cathcart) and England (Southend) and Jennie Lee also in Scotland (Motherwell IIRC) and England (Cannock)) than those who have held seats in three or even more. (Ramsay MacDonald, already instanced above, for seats in England, Scotland and Wales).Cloptonson (talk) 06:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, based on the article, only Ramsay MacDonald has had seats in three of the four nations. By the nature of an MP’s typical tenure, it’s more likely you’ll find those who’ve sat for two different nations, rather than three. I suppose the key point is that including this fact would mainly be listing those who’ve represented two different nations. There can’t be that many I haven’t listed, though. The vast majority of MPs represent one seat, or variants of it. TrottieTrue (talk) 11:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

John Dermot Campbell

I doubt the correctness of this MP being listed among those who died on active service in WW2, and the military rank he is credited with. His military service, according to biographical reference sources like Who Was Who, was during WWI and the years immediately after after which he came out of the army recordedly no higher than Lieutenant, and he was not re-employed by the army in the Second war. The CWGC lists him as a civilian, no mention of military service, in its list of Civilian War Dead through Air Crashes at Sea. Had he been a serving British Army personnel he would, like his colleague Robert Bernays who died in the same crash, have been commemorated by the CWGC on the Cassino Memorial to soldiers and army officers who died in the Italian sector and have no known grave. I would be inclined to list him among MPs who died in accidents or, if enemy action had caused his plane crash, those who died as civilian war casualties of enemy action.Cloptonson (talk) 12:55, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

House of Lords

I keep an eye on the oldest living/oldest serving section of this article. I notice that Lord Hacking has been added, as the oldest person elected in a House of Lords by-election. Is it intended that the House of Lords be covered by this article? I had assumed not, and a quick run-through suggests he's the only one included so far. But if he stays, then there should probably be fuller coverage. I've come up with the following:-

• Oldest current member:- Lord Christopher born (1925-04-25) 25 April 1925.
• Oldest debut:- Peerages can be inherited at any age - pre 1999 it's possible some chose to sit for the first time at a very great age but finding/collating who they were would be a long process. Same with oldest ever sitting member.
• Oldest ever life peer:- Earl of Longford was created a life peer aged 93, but this was to enable him to continue after the Blair reforms, not as a new member of the House. Other than him, according to list Lord Noel-Baker was made a life peer on 22 July 1977 and who sat first on 16 November 1977 aged 88.
• Oldest elected member since the Blair reforms:- Lord Hacking is in fact beaten by Lord Strabolgi who was aged 84 when elected in 1999.
• Youngest current member:- Baroness Penn, who is 37/38 (article lacks an exact birthdate but she will shortly be displaced anyway, see below).
• Youngest ever life peer:- Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge who is 29/30 (again article doesn't have an exact date, and she's not joined the House yet, but existing record will be broken).
• Youngest ever member:- Minimum age to sit is 21 - before 1999 some hereditaries who inherited when younger almost certainly sat as soon as they qualified, but finding/collating who they were would be a long process.
• Youngest ever elected member and youngest since Blair reforms:- Lord Freyberg, who was elected in 1999 at the age of 28.

[EDIT 16/7 - modified layout to make things clearer and added some further info] Any thoughts on if this information should be included? 2A02:8012:227B:0:2C2C:D64:7C49:6579 (talk) 13:50, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The Commons are the Commons and the Lords are the Lords. I would firmly suggest a separate article to make a home for these.Cloptonson (talk) 12:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)