Talk:Red line (phrase)

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Question[edit]

Hi Neptune, you say "my concern with showing the phrase is not exclusive to Near East.."[1] -- why do you have this concern? The idiom is used all the time on all sorts of subjects, it was ever exclusive to the middle east. Making issue over it suggests there is an underlying argument or point being made, I'm concerned your concern is connected to current events. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 14:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Origins" needs to be revised[edit]

It was terminology during the negotiations and ratifications of the Webster/Ashburton treaty that established the Maine/New Brunswick Border. (1842) http://books.google.com/books?id=xS1cAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA4&dq=%22red+line%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ePX3U_LbG8SYyASpmoLABg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22red%20line%22&f=false

In railroad engineering “red line” denoted the extreme of elevation or grade for cuts or fills would allow for rail operation (1833) http://books.google.com/books?id=v2A3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA38&dq=%22red+line%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7e33U5yMC5WsyAT2xYDICw&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=%22red%20line%22&f=false

In medicine the “red line of mortification” was used to establish at which point to amputate a limb. (1832) http://books.google.com/books?id=UF9EToSeyO8C&pg=PA706&dq=%22red+line%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7e33U5yMC5WsyAT2xYDICw&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=%22red%20line%22&f=false

In the Mishna Middot of the Talmud tradition the “red line” separates the altar from the profane. Slepowron (talk) 03:24, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those are good finds. I think it's fair to say that people have been drawing red lines for as long as the color red has been in existence, which is to say thousands of years, the literal use of red line just as old. The origin of the figurative use is the question. Red lines have been used on maps for a long time to separate sovereign states, so it makes sense that a battle over territory would become a poignant image with a "thin red line" of troops, since it's both on the small and large scale, of men, and maps, it's metaphorical. This is my own original research but hope to differentiate between a metaphor and literal use for an origin discussion which is why I think the sources point to the Battle of Balaclava. Like red herring which has a literal meaning (a smoked herring) and a figurative meaning. -- GreenC 03:59, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably only someone born in 1971 (Ben Zimmer) can consider 1975 to be ancient history?

It seems everyone has lost interest here but I made an effort to make some sense of this.

The article was confusing 3 entirely separate uses of the term, a red line (a line in the sand), a Thin Red Line (a brave and defiant stand against great odds) and to redline (meaning to go beyond an engine's maximum safe performance level). I am sorry to say it, but for someone who claims to be a"lexicographer" and language editor, Mr Zimmer ought to be ashamed. --Wordfunk (talk) 05:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]