Talk:Renaissance (French political party)

Colour of the party

I know that yellow is common associated with liberalism, but is Yellow really the colour of the party? The logo in the page is in black and white, their homepage is all cyan and pink, the logo of the group in Wikipedia is in sky blue, when you search for the party in google you most find blue, cyan or French tricolor-coloured images... I think that yellow is not the most adequated color to represent the party

Centrism, right-wing, big-tent

Renaissances brands itself as centrist and was actually centrist during the 2017 campaign. Its political position since evolved a lot, leaning to the right. It even occasionally embraced far-right themes, and is regularly pointing the main left-wing parties as "Enemy of the Republic" (aka State). Some also have called it Big Tent.

Labeling Renaissance "centrist" on Wikipedia is now deceptive. The French Wikipedia has stopped using a particular label in the intro. They only specify the political position in the infobox, where it says : centrism, right-wing and big tent.

I suggest we align on this and stop labeling Renaissance outside of the infobox, where we should at least add "Right wing".

talking Cherry 08:20, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The party is almost unanimously described by sources as centrist. It may be centre-right for French standards, but it is definitely centrist by European standards, which matter more as this is an international encyclopedia. I am going to rollback recent edits to the intro and the infobox. --Checco (talk) 17:32, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

It may be described as a centrist party, but it's centre-right in economic ideology according to an independent research University in North Carolina (USA): https://chesdata.shinyapps.io/Shiny-CHES/ .

In 2019 it was classified as 6.3333 (1 being extreme left, 10 extreme right) 2A02:A447:6A8F:1:2007:D155:86A:73E9 (talk) 14:24, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

One specific research should not change our consensus, but 6.3333 out of 10 looks quite centrist to me! --Checco (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Since the nomination of Gabriel Attal, it is described as right-wing (not center-right) by almost all Journals in France. The party's self-description isn't important for this article, otherwise we would put left-conservatism in the infobox of BSW. 'European standards', or 'french standards' aren't clearly and officially defined. There are enough sources to change the infobox to center-right. The party also brands itself as progressive, although most english sources probably don't describe it that way at least since Macron defended Gérard Depardieu. There are reliable sources describing it as center-right. Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

In addition, other parties, with similar positions, are also described as center-right (The FDP for exemple). Encyclopédisme (talk) 10:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Checco:Sooo, can I go ahead and add the sourced content we’re talking about? Encyclopédisme (talk) 23:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Why not? There an "ideology" section for that. --Checco (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Great. Encyclopédisme (talk) 13:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I propose the compromise of "Centre to centre-right", as is the case with Ensemble !. Economically, the party is very right-wing. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:50, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I oppose that, while I would accept "centre-right". However, my favourite option is "centre". --Checco (talk) 18:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Your 'favorite option'? Really? Plus one for 'centre to centre-right'. And may I propose 'center-left to right-wing' which largely describes all courants of the party (this is waht's on fr.wiki). Encyclopédisme (talk) 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I surely oppose "centre to centre-right" as I oppose the "xxxxx to xxxxx" format. --Checco (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

No it's Centre-Right by european standards. I live in France and am Franco-British, they are Centre-Right by European Standards and Centre-right to Right-wing by French Standards. Just recently the speaker of the house (who is part of Rennaissance) was elected thanks to votes from the right and far right. A lot of their social reforms have been considered "conservative" or "right-wing". Are there actually any french people on this chat page? Blaisethebest (talk) 10:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

That is quite weird. Talking about European standards, French parties tend to be more to the left on average. Even the RN holds social liberal positions on some issues that would make them more liberal than most centre-right parties in Europe. Really, Renaissance is centrist, by European standards. --Checco (talk) 19:58, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

No. Do not lecture me about my own country. The RN sit with the I.D group in the E.U parliament, the most rightwing group there is, so please do not think you know more, everything about them is far right. I think rennaissance should be labeled centre to centre-right. Another good example as to why that is: about 19/25 of the ministerial posts are occupied by former conservative mp's. Blaise Bnlk (talk) 20:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Centre to centre-right. We have multiple sources for centre-right: [1], [2], [3]. Helper201 (talk) 15:39, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Exactly! You are referring to French standards, not European ones. As I said and I really inteded to say that, all political parties in France are to the left of their counterparts in most countries, so that, for instance, the RN holds some socially liberal positions that would not be agreed by most EPP parties and even some PES ones (i.e. Italy's PD and Romania's PSD). --Checco (talk) 20:29, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Then, let's have "centre-right". I am for "centre" and nothing else, but I can accept that. The only option I oppose is "centre to centre-right". --Checco (talk) 05:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

What's your aversion to describing the position of a party as a spectrum? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 10:11, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

This party is purely centrist, which is also described as a centre-left and centre-right party, exactly like the German FDP. The fact that the latter is currently described as a centre-right party on its Wikipedia page is what I consider to be a gross error, which does not take into account most sources. Let's not repeat the same mistake here too.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 13:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that Renaissance is a purely centrist party, with centre-right and centre-left tendencies. That is quite different anyway from Germanys' FDP, which is and has always and structurally been a centre-right party, on several issues to the right of the CDU. --Checco (talk) 05:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I know this is off topic, but also the FDP, just like Renaissance, is a centrist party with both centre-right and centre-left tendencies (there are sources that explain this well)... I think both parties should be considered in the same way. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 07:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Read this article. They are centre-right by french and european standards, hence why they should be labled as centre to centre-right on their page. https://www.france24.com/en/20180506-france-centrist-emmanuel-macron-governs-right-wing-french-president Blaise Bnlk (talk) 17:46, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I would Support either this or simply "centre-right" as long as the footnote remains (perhaps altered to include the "radical centre" description that fr.wiki includes). – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 01:38, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

They are labelled as far right by a vast majority of international news outlets and media. Have you read up about there stances on dual-citizenship? Or their stances on the EU membership? Or their stances on transgendre people? Or their stances on immigrants coming into France? Or their stances on education reforms? Or their stances on privatising state-media? Or privatising the health-care system? No you haven't. And renaissance have contributed to a lot of these ideas being put into place. Hence my saying they should be considered centre to centre right on their wikipedia page. Blaise Bnlk (talk) 22:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Again, that is not the point. French political parties and politics in general are to the left of their ideological counterparts. Even the RN is to the left of most of its counterparts on economic issues, the welfare, some social issues and so on. Renaissance is no exception: it is a liberal party that is quite centrist by European standards. I am glad that most users agree with me on Renaissance being a centrist party. This said, I also think that positions in party infoboxes are more confusing than useful and I would remove them altogether. --Checco (talk) 14:02, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it matters how the parties' positions compare to parties outside of the country, given the precedent set in Talk:Democratic Party (United States), the party's position as viewed from the perspective of people in the country is what matters more than how it sits on the international stage. Hence why the Democratic Party are listed as center-left while being to the right of most other centre-left parties in the world and particularly in Europe. Same goes for CHP in Turkey being to the right of parties like, say, Place Publique, but is still listed with the same position. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 05:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. In French politics Renaissance is centrist and it is also centrist by European standards. --Checco (talk) 16:10, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I favour the status quo with "Centre" in the position box, but a footnote listing fr.wiki's more descriptive position. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 16:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Changing the colour of the party

I would like to open a discussion as to what colour the party should be represented with in election-related data tables. The official, and current, colour used in their official logo is a dark navy blue and is what editors have been using when creating election boxes and data tables to present election results.

However, there are quite a few similar, darker colours used for the main political parties of France (RE, LR, RN & REC all use dark blue/black shades). As Renaissance has several other colours associated with it, a different colour could be agreed upon to use in place. To open the discussion, I would suggest one the following options:

Option 1: Revert back to the yellow ( ) used for La Republique En Marche!. Pros: already a fimilar colour in 2012-2017 election data tables & maps. Cons: not used anywhere in current Renaissance branding.
Option 2: Use the moderate blue ( ) colour from the official party website. Pros: closely follows the contemporary branding of the party. Cons: similar to LR's colour.
Option 3: Stay with the current colour ( ). Pros: matches the official logo. Cons: very similar to colours used for RN, LR & REC.

Into oblivion (talk) 05:10, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I would choose either Option 1 or 2 - I deteset the current colour. It's also almost completely indistinguishable from the RN or REC colours.

Into oblivion (talk) 05:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Let's keep yellow, as newspapers tend to identify the party and its coalition. --Checco (talk) 16:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The current primary colour used on Wikipedia is not yellow - it is Option 3, dark navy. I would support returning the colour to yellow, as was the colour for Le Republique En Marche!.

Into oblivion (talk) 07:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Pinging recent contributors: @Joshuagaming12, @Checco, @Rh0809, @Blaisethebest, @David O. Johnson, @Moondragon21, @KlayCax, @Loytra.

It would be good to get a consensus about this asap, thanks.

Into oblivion (talk) 07:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I always thought the yellow was best as it is the most distinct. Moondragon21 (talk) 08:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I have not changed my mind: yellow. --Checco (talk) 19:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Yellow is more distinct, more utilized (alongside purple) when looking at graphics used by French media. Rh0809 (talk) 20:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm in favor of yellow as well for the same reasons. KlayCax (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It seems that there is a clear majority for making the party color yellow. Should this now be put into effect? Rh0809 (talk) 23:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

It seems concensus has been reached! I'll make the change to the party's colour right away. Thanks all for your contributions.

Into oblivion (talk) 10:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I live in France and practically every news channel and media represent them as yellow, so I vote yellow. Blaisethebest (talk) 10:59, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Colour of the party changed back to blue?

It seemed like there was a consensus above to change the colour to yellow, but it's back to blue again? Was this discussed elsewhere? ChristyMcMorrow (talk) 17:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Revert to yellow, common sense and bold edit that should be reverted – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 17:24, 2 August 2024 (UTC)