Talk:Richmond, North Yorkshire

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Where is Fresh Radio actually based?

Is it Richmond? I think it's Skipton (postal address on the freshradio website...) Sorry to be picky! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-T (talk • contribs) 21:42, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scotton

Whilst I was reverting some vandalism, I also removed the edit listing Scotton as a nearby settlement, this was intentional, I assume the contributor was referring to Scotton near Catterick Garrison, but there's no Wikipedia entry for there so it could lead to confusion with Scotton, Harrogate which is not nearby at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hotcrocodile (talk • contribs) 21:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You may be looking for Scotton, Richmondshire. Keith D (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Smashing, thanks for that, I will add it to the list. Hotcrocodile (talk) 22:55, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Banish Hoffman

Also born in Richmond, North Yorkshire was Dr. Banish Hoffman, physicist who worked with Einstein to develop the equations of motion in relativity. He was a teacher of mine at Queens College, NYC. See his page in Wikipedia.65.9.90.163 (talk) 18:01, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's possibly a good addition, but Wikipedia is not a source in itself, and a cursory google doesn't reveal any reliable source that he comes from Richmond, North Yorkshire. The only evidence seems to be from the Wikipedia article on him. Do you know that there are two Richmonds in the UK? Cheers Farrtj (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, this source: [1] reveals that he came from the Richmond in Surrey, the son of a London tailor, he grew up near here: [[2]] Farrtj (talk) 19:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

History section

I don't whether it's been vandalized (by the article history, it does seems to have been like this for quite a while) but it's absolute gibberish. A lot of it is just nonsense (the "independent" Richmond, Laws in Wales Acts, Mercia/Edwin etc) but mostly the English is just unintelligible. I'm going to change it in 2 stages: firstly, cut out the obvious rubbish and turn the language into English. Secondly (when I have a bit more time) re-write and expand it with sourced content. (There's no sourcing at the moment - well there couldn't be as a lot of it is pure fiction.) DeCausa (talk) 22:02, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stage 1 completed = don't know when I can do stage 2. DeCausa (talk) 22:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, found the problem. It mainly began with this edit in 2009 by an IP in Arizona that had a bad record for disruption. Most of the nonsense originates from this. Amazing that it stayed in the article this long. DeCausa (talk) 22:43, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Local government

The Local government section needs clarifying. The text mentions "Richmond Central" while the reference has "Richmond North". The southerly section covered by Hipswell ward appears not to contribute members to the town council as that only indicates from 3 wards not 4. If it does not elect councillors is it really part of Richmond? Keith D (talk) 21:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reclassification Keith, I'm happy to provide sources for the wards when I have proper desktop access in an hour or so. I think what I was trying to get at is that parts of the town of Richmond are not covered by a Richmond named ward, the railway station and Holly Hill are certainly considered as part of Richmond, but if it were easier that this info was removed then that's okay! Any extra tips to try and reach B Class would be appreciated as that was what I was aiming for. :) Cacolantern 11:55, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed text requiring consensus

Viewmont Viking, Kovcszaln6, Frost, Daniel Case, KeithD, Retired25072024. Hello all. Recently I have been in an argument with Retired25072024 (previously user:HazzleDazzleDoDah) about the opening text in the main body of the article Richmond, North Yorkshire. The disputed text revolves around the derivation of the name of Richmond, which, according to my sources, state that the name stems from a similar name existing around the same time in France/Normandy. The ban for User:Retired25072024 will expire soon, so I hope that they contribute to the discussion.

The history of this is that the castle, and town, were founded by Alan before the Domesday survey and was named after one of the many Richmonte’s/Richmunte’s etc that existed around the same time in France. The debate quickly became uncivil, and I was at pains to point out that I was following the sources, all of which I considered reliable and worthwhile. User:Retired25072024 kept reverting any edits that cited the derivation of the name of Richmond with edit summaries such as these: "Indeed they are considered reliable, but don't support the statement. As has been discussed with the editor, who admitted he didn't know that information to be correct. Please check sources are relevant as well as reliable." I never said that the information was incorrect. Admittedly, all the sources could be wrong in that they could stem from one person’s opinion that the name came from a place in France, and other writers have just followed suit. My reasoning here is the old “humans only use 10% of their brain” which originated in the 1920s (I think) when a scientist stated that we only know what 10% of the brain is used for.^[1] This has been misquoted so many times that it is almost laughable. My point was that I never claimed to be correct in what I was saying, I could be completely wrong, but that is what the sources state, and in the absence of proof to the contrary, I was going with the sources.

Let’s look at those sources:

"The present name derives from Old French ‘Rich-Monte’ and means ‘Strong Hill’".^[2]
"Versions of the name ‘Riche Mont’ are quite common in France."^[3]
"The site of Richmond was called Hindrelac in DE and Hindeslak in 1184 RichReg 84 (a digest of DB). The elements of this name are not clear from the scanty material. After the Conquest Earl Alan considered the fine strategic importance of the place and built himself a castle which he called Richemund(e) (1108-14 YCh 25, C. 1130 SD, c. 1155 BM et passim, Rich' unt 1176 et passim P, etc.) on the top of lofty precipice overlooking the Swale R. The name was probably transferred from some well-known site in France where there are many examples of the name. Here it means 'strong hill,' and for this meaning of OFr .--iche v. Godefroy s.v."^[4]
"Richmond (YN) The latter was named from one of the Richemonts in France."^[5]
"Richmond, North Yorkshire, ‘Richemund’ strong-hill c1110."^[6]

User:Retired25072024 first reverted the text with this edit summary

“

None of the sources actually support the claim of Richemont being the inspiration. Richmond is my home town, my brother is an archeologist that worked on Richmond castle. Can we please stop quoting other websites that claim false information and linking sources that have no relevance.

”

Frost was the first to revert Retired2507024, and then I reverted their second removal and inserted Smith and Ekwall as cites. I had not used any web addresses, all cites that I have used are from books, and at least two (Smith and Ekwall) are respected authors and authorities on the place names of England. Thereafter, the user was reverted twice by two different editors, and on their talk page I asked them for reliable sources to refute my sources, and provide ones that demonstrated why they were incorrect. These sources never materialised apart from some inter-Wiki links which contravened WP:CIRCULAR and I cautioned the editor about this course of action. All of this history can be seen in the article history, and on the user’s talk page. The Richmond page currently displays Retired25072024's heavily edited text.

If everyone is okay, I would like the following text to be in the main body of the article under the History section. The test below has some simplification and a combination of the current wording.

“

Richmond was founded in 1071 by Alan Rufus, a Breton nobleman, on lands granted to him by William the Conqueror, though it was called ‘’Hindrelag’’ or ‘’Hindlerac’’initially. The name derives from Old French ‘’Riche and Monte’’, meaning ‘’Strong Hill’’, which is a place name used in different locations within France. The name of Richmond has led to many duplications around the world, and is one of the most commonly re-used English place names having 56 other Richmond’s around the world.

”

I would also use this cite:^[7] in addition to the ones listed above, but not the human brain citation, as that has no relevance.

I am more than happy for the text to be re-worded from what I have put in above, as that is merely a suggestion.The joy of all things (talk) 11:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree I'm perfectly fine with this wording and the sources. Kovcszaln6 (talk) 12:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Tulloch, Katrina (20 April 2017). "Neil deGrasse Tyson unpacks 11 sci-fi movie moments". syracuse.com. Retrieved 28 July 2024.
^ Chrystal, Paul (2017). The Place Names of Yorkshire; Cities, Towns, Villages, Rivers and Dales, some Pubs too, in Praise of Yorkshire Ales (1 ed.). Catrine: Stenlake. p. 67. ISBN 9781840337532.
^ Metcalfe, Peter (1992). Place-names of the Yorkshire Dales. Harrogate: North Yorkshire Marketing ltd. p. 66. ISBN 1-873214-03-0.
^ Smith, A. H. (1979) [1928]. The Place Names of the North Riding of Yorkshire. English Place Name Society. p. 287. OCLC 19714705.
^ Ekwall, Eilert (1960). The concise Oxford dictionary of English place-names (4 ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. p. 386. ISBN 0-19-869103-3.
^ Mills, Anthony (1991). A dictionary of English place names. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198691564.
^ "Richmond". opendomesday.org. Retrieved 28 July 2024.

[1] Tulloch, Katrina (20 April 2017). "Neil deGrasse Tyson unpacks 11 sci-fi movie moments". syracuse.com. Retrieved 28 July 2024.

[2] Chrystal, Paul (2017). The Place Names of Yorkshire; Cities, Towns, Villages, Rivers and Dales, some Pubs too, in Praise of Yorkshire Ales (1 ed.). Catrine: Stenlake. p. 67. ISBN 9781840337532.

[3] Metcalfe, Peter (1992). Place-names of the Yorkshire Dales. Harrogate: North Yorkshire Marketing ltd. p. 66. ISBN 1-873214-03-0.

[4] Smith, A. H. (1979) [1928]. The Place Names of the North Riding of Yorkshire. English Place Name Society. p. 287. OCLC 19714705.

[5] Ekwall, Eilert (1960). The concise Oxford dictionary of English place-names (4 ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. p. 386. ISBN 0-19-869103-3.

[6] Mills, Anthony (1991). A dictionary of English place names. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198691564.

[7] "Richmond". opendomesday.org. Retrieved 28 July 2024.

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