Talk:Robert Bloom
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independence of some of the sources
[edit]Some of these are unpublished letters; others are edited or authored by kinfolk.
solved
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References
These seem unencumbered by any concerns of independence, and also seemingly published, but in all cases but the NYT, need to be verified by non-COI-encumbered eyeballs, please, to make sure what the sources said is being cold-hard-boring-facts-with-an-eye-to-wiki-neutrally summarized:
References
Also, I'm not sure all of them are WP:SOURCES as opposed to WP:BLOGS ... is the Ryon cite, for instance, *published* by University of Maryland Press, or equivalent? Or is it just on her personal-university-homepage? Since no URL is provided, I cannot tell. |
Collapsing, I missed most of the work, my thanks, wow. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 16:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- I have marked some of the sources with {{primary-source-inline}}. The "Sources" section is a distraction. The sources need to be within the references themselves. There is much work to do ripping away the paean of praise and eulogy. Fiddle Faddle 17:13, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
- Re. "The "Sources" section is a distraction. The sources need to be within the references themselves." – WP:CITEVAR, I have no preference one way or another. In a first step I would avoid changing the style of a ref provided by someone else. In a second step I would avoid the numerous repeats of Robert Bloom: The Story of a Working Musician in the references section: "in Bloom 2009" conveys the same information, with the full ref & links in the "Sources" section. Now, a key issue that probably can't be resolved fully without someone seeing that source is whether all its components are self-published and/or primary: that source may partially be a republication of sources that have been published before and/or are not really primary sources. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://music.yale.edu/2009/09/11/new-biography-of-oboist-robert-bloom/ "New biography of oboist Robert Bloom"
- ^ Robert Bloom: The Story of a Working Musician, edited by Sara Lambert Bloom. http://www.rdgwoodwinds.com/robert-bloom-story-working-musician-p-11990.html , 2009. ISBN 9781934866115
- Although the edit-history is somewhat confused, I believe that both the rdgwoodwinds.com and the yale.edu contents are written by Bloom (one or the other or both). They are probably fine per WP:SELFPUB, but probably not more. p.s. Also mentioning here, for much the same talkpage-posterity-reasons, Bloom is already in List of oboists, and has the asterisk for his New Grove entry, but the ref is List_of_oboists#cite_note-38 aka http://www.cranberryisles.com/photos/robert_bloom.html which seems to fall afoul of WP:SPIP perhaps. Should that cranberryIsles.com citation, be changed to the Geoffrey Burgess Grove Music Online (or perhaps to the Geoffrey Burgess Macmillan)? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 14:10, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
philadelphia orchestra job-title , plus Stokowski questions
[edit]Not sure how to disentangle these bits:
- "...and the Philadelphia Orchestra under Stokowski, where he was the assistant principal oboist and also played English horn."[1]
- "...says Richard Woodhams, the Philadelphia Orchestra's solo oboist... "He [Bloom] was the oboist on all those records made by ... Leopold Stokowski's orchestra. When... Stokowski [etc] recorded, Bloom was their oboist."[2]
- "While at Curtis, he was named assistant principal oboe in the Philadelphia Orchestra and, later, English hornist. After six years, he left Philadelphia..."[3]
We currently just say 'English horn in the 1930s' but I believe we can use WP:CALC to pinpoint the timespan under Stokowski (elsewhere we are informed by philly.com that Bloom was a student at Curtis for 3 years prior to his job offerings). Once the dates are figured out from the WP:SOURCES, we can confirm we got them right using the available WP:SELFPUB materials. Part of the trouble is that apparently, Bloom worked at the Philly Orchestra for six years, then spent one year with Rochester, then the NBC Orchestra through 1943 when he co-founded the Bach Aria Group... but simultaneous with his chamber music work, he also did recordings for orchestras in the 1940s and later, including from what I can gather Leopold Stokowski. According to wikipedia,[citation needed] Stokowski was the conductor of the Philly Orchestra 1912-1940, and then was the NBC Orchestra conductor-slash-co-conductor with Toscanini 1941-1944, which means per WP:SYNTH Bloom was under Stokowski at Curtis/PhillyO/NbcO, although of course such would need to be properly sourced. Stokowski conducted at a *bunch* of places 1945-1975ish, and may have used Bloom in those places (or recordings) later, as well. Anyways, if somebody could look into the job-title, and perhaps, into the longer-term relationship with Stokowski, I would appreciate it. I'm having trouble figuring out if there is a difference between first oboe, principle oboe, solo oboist, and recording oboist. :-) I'm guessing that the answer is "it depends"? 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:02, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
professor
[edit]Also noticed, we mention Yale and Julliard per NYT, but fail to mention University of Cincinnati, nor his ensemble-teaching at Curtis. "He long held a professorship at the University of Cincinnati... He also taught at Curtis as a visiting artist."[4] Earlier in same URL: "From 1975 to 1985, Mr. Bloom was a visiting professor at the Eastman School, the Juilliard School, Yale University, the Manhattan School and the University of the Arts in Philadelphia." (Same cite also makes former-student-and-widow Sara Lambert Bloom WP:NOTEWORTHY for the list-o-students methinks.) No precise years given, unfortunately, for most of the professorship stuff, but I bet we can source the timespans from WP:ABOUTSELF materials. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:02, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
- The Grove Dictionary of American Music, second edition (2013), which may be regarded as an even more reliable source, verifies some of his teaching positions: "Bloom composed a number of short works for oboe, and taught at several of America’s leading educational institutions, including Yale University (1957–76), the Hartt (1967–75) and Juilliard Schools (1973–81), and the Philadelphia University of the Arts (1978–85)", as well as Sara L. Bloom's noteworthiness: "His pupils included Bert Lucarelli, RAY STILL, and Allan Vogel. Bloom trained his wife Sara Lambert Bloom, who has edited a complete collection of her husband’s compositions, recordings, and editions of oboe music as well as a biography and a set of writings, including his book The Oboe, a Musical Instrument."—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:18, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
Infobox
[edit]Robert Bloom | |
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Bloom as a young man in Pittsburgh Bloom as a young man in Pittsburgh | |
Background information | |
Birth name | Royal Israel Bloom (Robert Irving Bloom) |
Born | Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania[1] | May 3, 1908
Died | February 13, 1994 Cincinnati, Ohio[1] | (aged 85)
Genres | Orchestral, chamber music, solo; 18th, 19th, and 20th century repertoire |
Occupation(s) | Oboist (and English hornist[1]), composer,[1] teacher,[1] recording artist, conductor,[citation needed] editor[citation needed] of 18th-century works |
Instrument(s) | Oboe, English horn[1] |
Years active | 1930–1993 |
Is there a reason why there is no {{Infobox person}} here any more? I am aware some Wikiprojsects eschew these. Fiddle Faddle 10:27, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
- I removed it when it was unclear what info to retain in it, at a moment we weren't even sure what would be retained (and referenced) in the article. I propose an infobox is first presented here, and when there's agreement on its content it can go back to the article.
- Also, the previous' infoboxes image is up for deletion at WikiMedia, so there's a factor to be reckoned with too. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:55, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
- Copied last version here →
- This one however overshoots the mark by far imho (meaning: too much detail). --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:09, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
References
- Also, not positive we actually have copyright-license for the imagefile, properly worked out. Fuhgehtaboutit removed some textual-copyvio from the draft, earlier. 75.108.94.227 (talk) 15:00, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
- My inclination would be to rebuild the infobox with information that is sourced (though one need not actually cite items within it if one chooses not to provided they are cited or otherwise referenced elsewhere, or are not susceptible to challenge), and leave anything speculative out. The picture is suspect, but will either be retained or deleted at Commons. If it is deleted then there is a bot which will delete it cleanly from the article anyway. I suggest the box be re-created with basic information. Fiddle Faddle 05:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
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