Talk:Robert Garside

Rewritten

I've rewritten the controversy section. It's now named "Dispute" (more NPOV). Feel free to discuss/change/copy-edit (because my wiki-formatting sucks, and also because a few sources have been cited twice). Aditya Ex Machina 14:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, on first glance it looks a lot better. Off2riorob (talk) 14:17, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Ditto off2riorob. The lead paragraph of the article should probably also be trimmed... Mike Peel (talk) 17:16, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Trimming is one of my talents, I'll have a look. Off2riorob (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I like the retitling. I do wonder if it suggests that the controversy was ended by Guinness' decision, as it does not mention the responses after the fact covered in this Guardian piece. It also does not mention Garside's response to the criticism (his indication of a campaign against him; his statement that his failure to contest printed material did not indicate his validation of it; his denial of admitting fabrication of details; his reasons for running alone or his belief that jealousy inspired some of his detractors), but perhaps that's appropriate given the abbreviation of the section. Certainly, explaining his defense would require more detail to make sense. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 02:56, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to change as needed. Aditya Ex Machina 10:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

As I am finally getting home to a decent connection. :) The problem I see is the lead. As Wikipedia:Lead section says, "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any notable controversies." There's not a mention of this dispute (I do like that title) in the lead. Also, the sentence "Guinness World Records spent several years evaluating that evidence before declaring it authentic" becomes awkward without the mention of evidence that had previously existed. The pronoun use is a bit odd. Let's see. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:45, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

←I'm fairly out of whack, but I think that your word choice of "questioning" is a very good one. :) I've borrowed it for the lead. Is there a reason why Steven Seaton's words are italicized? I don't wish to change this if so, but otherwise we should (in accordance with WP:NFC) stick as close to the formatting of the original as possible. The italics do seem to draw attention to that text. I've moved references for quotes directly to the quotes in accordance with Wikipedia:Citing sources#When quoting someone. I'm also not entirely sure what the <br /> meant, so I removed it and put spaces in. Sorry if I've messed up some subtler formatting. On review, the Guardian does not seem to state "that Garside could not "run 130 miles on a track for 24 hours, under observation". ([1]) It says "Mr Garside did not complete the challenge", which is a very different thing. "Could not" implies lack of ability. "Did not" does not offer speculation as to reason. I've clarified that so as not to overstate the Guardian's implications. And I've added the response of Ian Champion after the announcement of the record.

Personally, I believe that noting the dispute after the section on "The Record" gives it more rather than less weight. When I reorganized material originally, I had placed it there so that the reader would move from the controversies to the details of the evidence, including Guinness' statement that it was satisfied. I wonder if having the dispute last might leave a stronger impression on readers of the article. I will not rearrange that material, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

As to Garside's answers to his accusers, well, I don't know how to include that without contextualizing it, which begins to again spin out the material. Obviously, I never thought it was undue weight, or I wouldn't have written it, but I'm happy to have other input. When I requested it at the time, unfortunately I got no takers. :) As I indicated, I rewrote the article because the situation was escalating to legal, and I wanted to be sure that the article fully represented his viewpoint as well—which may well have resulted in the material being too extensive, as context and balance became necessary. (For instance, you can't very well tell readers that Garside denied admitting fabrication without explaining what he allegedly fabricated and who said he had admitted it.) I do not know what happened when the matter reached the legal department, because once it is forwarded to them I don't have access to that OTRS e-mail anymore. I would gather that nothing satisfactory for him has yet come of it, if he then moved on to Wikimedia UK. (An odd court of appeal, if so, as it has no authority over Wikipedia, as Mike Peel quite rightly noted). --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:40, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I think I prefer it like this as I think imo getting a Guinness record is not easy, and that is a fact, the record. The dispute is more opinionated and comments from reports and so on, IMO what is there now reads quite balanced. Off2riorob (talk) 14:45, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I have moved your comment to the end of mine. Unfortunately, your placement of it in the middle of my note may make it difficult for other contributors to understand who said what, when. My question concerns whether or not the placement undermines the Record, since readers will have read it last in the article. It has nothing to do with adding or removing content. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I realize that you want to move the dispute section to a higher place in the article but I feel that the record is one of the only actual facts there is, and the claims of controversy regarding the run should go after the official recognition of the record, that way the reader gets the facts and then the reliable citations, personally I feel that to raise the dispute section above would serve to highlight the dispute. On a side note .. I once read somewhere that 85 percent of people never get past the lede, the same percentage never go to an external link to read what is there, there are about 20 people a day including bots accessing this article that means approximately one robot and one person a day get to the bottom of the article. Off2riorob (talk) 15:50, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, we'll see what others think, then. On one note, though, as far as Wikipedia is concerned, everything in the "Dispute" section is a "fact"—we are not guessing whether the disputed information is true (or not), but documenting from reliable sources that it has been said. It is a fact that "Garside's achievements have been questioned by other runners and by the press". --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, agreed that is another simple fact , wikipedia enjoys legal protection through the fact of verifiability and reliable sourcing, these conditions are there to cover wiki's ass, this means that the legal responsibility for the comment is placed back in the hands of the original reporter, this is not actual facts but simply that we report with good faith the reports of other sources. Lets see if there are comments from other independent users, or we could take it back to the BLP board for a final decision. Off2riorob (talk) 16:08, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I think we can manage to wait a few more hours to see if anybody else wants to chime in. And, yes, reliable sources matter. As I've said above, that's why I handled it as I did to begin with when I got no feedback at BLPN, when the OTRS complaint escalated to legal...who were apprised of the situation when I forwarded it to them in September. I do not know, but would imagine that they have had opportunity in the last several months to review the article. BLP issues are part of what we do, and making sure that all controversial information is reliably sourced is a big part of that. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 16:14, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too keen on the current section headings (such as "Dispute") and the lead should make mention of the dispute. I haven't had time to review all the changes. Verbal chat 16:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The dispute is mentioned in the lede..."Garside's run has been questioned by other runners and by the press" . Off2riorob (talk) 16:59, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I like "Dispute" better than "Controversies", which I had used. Is there another header that could succinctly describe the section contents? I have no particular opinion on what the other section headings should be called, since they really shouldn't represent BLP problems. I think bold changing of those is probably just fine. :) The lead does not give full weight to the dispute, in terms of balanced reflection of article content, but I decided to err on the side of conservativeness. If you want to properly expand it, I'm sure that would be appropriate, too. Or we could talk about how properly to summarize it. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:10, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I also like dispute. I would prefer it if anyone wants to make changes to the article, that under the circumstances that they present them here first for discussion, imo acting conservatively is considering the reports about this article is a good idea. Off2riorob (talk) 17:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your request, but it sounds like you're asking that no changes be made to this article at all without prior discussion. This article isn't fully protected and as such is open to editing by any registered, autoconfirmed user. I can see the value of requesting prior discussion for controversial matters, but more than that seems inappropriate. If there's a better section heading than "The race", is there a policy-based reason why Wikipedia:Be bold should not apply? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:27, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I am not asking that no changes be made to the article, I am simply asking that as we are here off the BLP noticeboard and repeated reports from the subject of the article that we simply discuss any changes here, clearly I can't demand that, it is simply a good faith request. Off2riorob (talk) 17:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I've read through the above discussion. I'll comment on it tomorrow, it's past midnight here and I need to study. A few quick notes though: The Guardian quote that Moonriddengirl removed was actually in the article. That's why it was put in quotes. Also, there's no real reason why Seaton's quote was in italics. They can be removed. And finally (for now), Dispute is more NPOV than Controversy, especially for BLPs. Aditya Ex Machina 19:09, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Tomorrow is plenty of time, but I wonder if you are remembering that Guardian situation correctly. :) I changed The Guardian material from the first box to the second:

The Guardian was more critical in its commentary, stating that Garside could not "run 130 miles on a track for 24 hours, under observation"

The Guardian was more critical in its commentary, stating that Garside did not "did not complete the challenge" to "run 130 miles on a track for 24 hours, under observation".

I didn't remove any quotes, but rather added more. If you look at the source, you'll see that their precise sentence was "Mr Garside did not complete the challenge." I don't see anything in there by The Guardian suggesting he could not. If I'm overlooking it, could you point to the actual words? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 19:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

(And now I've changed it again, as posting it shows that I used the words "did not" twice! --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 19:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC))

I was going by the above conversation, I hadn't actually seen the change itself, and I was incorrect in my assumption. Your change is fine, IMO. The <br /> simply moves the accompanying text to a new line. It seemed more appropriate at that time, but that's a minor issue and can be removed. I've got no opinion of the order of the sections. You can put it before the record section if you wish. I don't think it really matters (the dispute and record section are so interrelated that they could probably be merged seamlessly. Not saying they should, just that they could). And finally, I'm against adding Garside's responses, mainly because they don't hold much weight (he didn't say anything worth quoting), and also because adding further material to the dispute section risks violating WP:UNDUE (You could add a line or two, I suppose, without significantly altering the size of the dispute section). Aditya Ex Machina 09:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. I got distracted by copyright matters until the activity in the section below reminded me of this. :) I don't have really strong feelings about arrangement. We've got you with no opinion, me thinking it should go above, and Off2riorob thinking it should go below. Let's leave it where it is and see if anybody else chimes in to agree with one view or the other. I don't think I could add Garside's responses without expanding what he's responding to to make sense of it, so that's probably best just left. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:34, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions

I wonder whether it's worth having the sentence "Garside has announced intentions to follow up his record by running across the Antarctic and swimming around the globe" in the header, and the "Afterward" section in the article. It seems these follow-up plans were announced more than five years ago and never acted upon. The article at the moment makes it sounds as if they are active plans. Unless there is some evidence that Garside is actively preparing for one of these feats I'd suggest they certainly don't merit inclusion in the header and their own article section. Perhaps instead a sentence at the end of the "The Run" section such as "Garside originally suggested he would follow up his round the world run with a run across the Antarctic and a swim around the globe but has not acted on these plans to date."? BarryNL (talk) 13:23, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, we can't say he hasn't acted on these plans unless some source says so. For all we know, he's been busily organizing this run or swim for years. :) But I'd agree that it may not be appropriate for inclusion in the header, since it's a very small part of the body of the article and not related to his notability. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed with above. Though perhaps we could specify the year he announced his plan, so the reader can come to his/her own conclusions. Aditya Ex Machina 15:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Bot

The bot's messed up. It's not showing the archives on this page. Aditya Ex Machina 10:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Should be fixed; the counter was set to 240, meaning that the archive ended up at Talk:Robert Garside/Archive 240. I've reset the counter and moved the archive to Talk:Robert Garside/Archive 1; it should now be linked to above. Mike Peel (talk) 10:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. It's fixed now. Aditya Ex Machina 09:42, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a number (about 100) selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Penfding changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 23:46, 16 June 2010 (UTC).

Have removed a generalisation. Note that only some press and some runners questioned this achievement, not all. Next thing was the removal of a dud link. Think this reads much better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 16:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

You don't seem to have attempted to remove a link at all, which is fortunate, since the link for the cited information you did remove is not a dud. The link is alive and well. Contrary to removing a generalization, you seem to have inadverntetly added one, altering "other runners and by the press" (which is specific and supported by the cited material) with the word "some". --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

The weighting of the story wasn't quite right. What about the 2,000 positive articles visible on LexisNexis database? Too much emphasis on a dud link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I presume it is you (as all IP editors editing this article in the last several days are from the Slovak Republic) attempting to remove sourced information from this article: [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. I've altered the text so that perhaps it will no longer seem to suggest to you that all other runners and press questioned his record, since that's not verified. If you're talking about the "wikilink" being a dud, we can remove that link. Or we can create an article on the organization. There's nothing to suggest that the individual is not notable, and his views were given considerable room by the reliable source that verifies it. The article was balanced after a thorough review at the WP:BLPN. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:33, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, I'd rather discuss this in private... do you have an e-mail? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, although you have to be logged in to e-mail me (maybe users have an "email this user" tab in the toolbox of their user space), but I do not discuss article development privately. The project prefers that such conversations be maintained openly to encourage transparency and community consensus. I've been poking at the sources to see if Blaikie's significance here is overstated. I don't believe it is. According to The Guardian, "It was a Canadian long-distance running enthusiast and former journalist, David Blaikie, who first began to ask questions" and Sports Illustrated say, "Runningman, as the former psychology student calls himself, has been on the run from critics since late 2000, when Canadian journalist David Blaikie accused him of making claims about his journey." It seems that Blaikie is pivotal to the Dispute section here. He's not some random private person, but the person who first started the dispute. (This isn't a source we would use, but it seems to confirm that the subject himself found Blaikie's dispute notable: [7].) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

NEWSWEEK is more credible don't you think? http://www.newsweek.com/2003/03/02/running-away-from-it-all.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Then there are always these links too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2841547.stm - http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL2666293420070326 - http://itn.co.uk/3250f6c3cae68b98c9ad283806df1597.html ... what about these? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I can't say that Newsweek is more or less credible than Sports Illustrated or the Guardian (though I suspect it's more credible than the NY Post), but I'm not sure how that relates to this conversation. They do not make Blaikie's part in the Dispute section less relevant. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

1. "Blaikie's"?... you write his name like you know him.....do you? 2. What about the BBC, or Reuters or ITN? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 18:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

LOL! Oh, my goodness. His name is in the sources. I am literate and have enough short-term memory to retain it during this brief discussion. Please explain in what way any other sources serve to invalidate the inclusion of this man in the Dispute section. If they don't, I fail to see the relevance of your new direction. To answer your question directly: I do not know Blaikie; I do not know Garside (whose name I also write like I know him). Do you? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, let's not argue about this.... just thought its best to keep sources as credible as possible. We both know that Newsweek, BBC, ITN, Reuters and Guinness World Records are far more credible than a dud link to a private citizen. Anyway, 'nuff said...won't go on.

I've erased a duplicate sentence that was also found in 'dispute' section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 10:01, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Really, so can we say President Clinton is the President? No, he was the president, therefore, Steven Seaton is the former editor, not a current editor as you are trying to imply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 11:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Your change to this article is out of keeping with Wikipedia:Lead. You have been told this several times. The lead of an article should summarize the material that follows, mentioning all major points; to quote, "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any notable controversies." If you disagree, you should discuss this at the article's talk page and not continue making the same edit once it has been reverted. This is edit warring, even if it is not your intention. We would not say "Former President Clinton" to describe an action Clinton made while president. You might say "then President Clinton" or "Clinton, then President". However, that he is "former" anything is uncited. The source for that sentence does not confirm this. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

You were complaining of redundancy; I rewrote the sentence accordingly. Now you say, "I don't agree because the run is not in question. It was ratified by Guinness World Records. You are repeating the same negative sentence twice in the same article." Although the sentence had been rewritten, I have reformulated it further. The sentence is not repeated. However, as indicated above, the lead must note "notable controversies" discussed in the body of the article. The lead also notes that the record was ratified by Guinness World Records. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, I advise you to avoid using the word "controversy". If in doubt please contact Wikipedia UK and to cease and desist in edit warring with me when my edits are perfectly reasonable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 11:30, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Finally, you are giving far too much page space to unfounded opinions and propaganda and to quoting nobodies and defunct presidents... and I don't take kindly to attempts at re-hydrating propaganda... this, along with the weighting of the story had already been discussed with wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 11:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The word "controversy" is part of the guideline which I am quoting. Wikipedia U.K. has nothing to do with the development of this article, which like all other articles must follow guidelines and policies...which include a lead that summarizes the contents of the article. I think most of the changes you propose in your last edit are reasonable, but I must admit to being bemused by your note "That's the art of a compromise." I rewrote the lead sentence twice for you: [8] and [9]. It seems to me that the "art of a compromise" was attempted several times earlier in this chain of events. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:09, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Fine, well... as long as we're both OK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

There still seems to be some problems with the article with regards to the references. They don't seem to be aligned, so I'm going to go through it slowly85.248.106.103 (talk) 16:54, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Sydney Morning Herald

How does this article substantiate that "Garside had become obsessed with running in the late-1980s, and when he noticed that there was a record on file for walking the world, but not for running it, decided that this was his record to set"? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in that article. Did you perhaps intend to put that reference elsewhere? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 15:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't know why this BBC reference (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_6500000/newsid_6500800/6500851.stm) was not put in earlier. It's a good news story! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 16:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what this comment has to do with my question. :) But it's nice to see you've registered, 85.248.106.103. My question still stands. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 16:24, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Article is better. Moonriddengirl, you seem very keen on this article... is it of personal interest to you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 16:27, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, that's all for now. Hope you are ok with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 16:44, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you explain you actions? Dromeaz (talk) 16:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

providing you are OK with this... that was my final edit to this story. It is, I hope you will agree, a perfectly valid inclusion and reference to a METRO news story (a London newspaper) about Garside intending to produce a film. Dromeaz (talk) 16:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It is of interest to me as an administrator of Wikipedia, to ensure that it remains compliant with our policies and guidelines. Unfortunately, this article has an embattled history which has led to blocks of accounts and for quite some time the locking the article to prevent its being edited by unregistered or new contributors. We are here to accurately reflect both positive and negative coverage of notable subjects, and I care very much that we remain true to that mission. So long as it seems necessary, I will help guard this article to help keep it on track, as I do many others. It's a bit easier to see when a contributor has a conflict of interest in looking at their edit histories, as they will usually focus heavily on a single area or related cluster. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 16:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, I hope you do track it, as I will. I think I too have been quite fair. My edits have been justified, but still when I add a Metro story, which was just one of DOZENS of media outlets who reported that Garside was to produce a film, it is erased as promo "fluff", even though that statement is true and validated with a reference to a national news story. Other media outlets who reported that, include, but are not limited to: http://itn.co.uk/3250f6c3cae68b98c9ad283806df1597.html http://www.metro.co.uk/news/42972-briton-becomes-first-person-to-run-around-the-world These are national media outlets in the UK. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It wasn't that important anyway. Just thought it would be nice to have it there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

P.s. if the above was "promo fluff" then why have this comment in article "....Antarctic and swimming around the globe"? Isn't this promo fluff too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 17:52, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, that'smy final edit to this story. I sincerely hope you are OK with this. I've included TWO references. You said you'd accept it with more references, so there they are. One is ITN and the other is Metro. If you are OK with this then I will leave it at that.85.248.106.103 (talk) 18:06, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. I don't know what the name of the book will be, nor a film production. My comments pertain to the fact that he said it and that he was quoted in the press as saying that. The WHOLE article contains things that were said and quoted in the media. E.g. he said he would swim around the world, that he would cross the Antarctic. Do you propose to erase those mentiones too?85.248.106.103 (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It's sometimes helpful to specify to whom you're speaking. I didn't remove the material or say that I'd accept it with more references. You may know that, but others reading this may be confused. It may well be "promo fluff"; I believe I may have been the contributor who originally added the content about other activities he intended to undertake, so I'm not sure I should be the one to judge that. While not specifically about this situation (since it's more about creating new articles), there may be an element of what Wikipedia describes as "crystal ballery" to the material. Per that policy, "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." Since there has been no further press, I presume that Mr. Garside has not yet completed these goals, and it might be more appropriate to discuss them when there is some update. It does not pertain to the neutrality of the article, so I'll leave that for others to decide. Back on this topic, my question remains unaddressed. The current placement of the Sydney Morning Herald article seems to be misleading. If it does not pertain there and no proposed alternative placement is suggested, it will need to be removed. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:47, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, you are having a laugh. Really, you are and you know it. Simply, its my way or highway. That is what you are really saying. Logically, you know that my inclusion is valid, justified and referenced and it conforms to Wikipedia guidelines. You may as well remove the references to Mr Garside crossing the Antarctic and swimming the globe, because that is also a forward leaning statement. You do not make any sense at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 18:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Except it's not my way. You do realize that I am not the same person that left that note at your talk page, don't you? You are having a dispute with him about this content, and I have no opinion on its inclusion. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 19:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, shouldn't the stuff about plans to swim the globe or run the Antarctic be removed? They were announced around 2003 and nothing seems to have happened. The way they are mentioned in the article now they sound like ongoing plans. I'd suggest either adding something along the lines of "but such plans were never realised" or better deleting the Afterwards section as it seems to add nothing useful to the article. Comments? BarryNL (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, I have moved the Sydney Morning Herald story to "The Record" section. It's more appropriate there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 19:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes I do... well its not a dispute, let's just see it as airing our views. Anyway, I have moved the Sydney Morning Herald story to "The Record" section. It's more appropriate there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.248.106.103 (talk) 19:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It appears as though the vandal is back, under a new name. I have reverted this story to its original versions on 19 November 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 11:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Think why this story has recently been agressively edited. I cannot agree with this and will defend the previous edit on 19th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 11:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl, In 2007 Mr. Garside got his world record which is WHY this person became an editor in 2007. They drove this article into an edit war because they are an opponent of Mr. Garside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 11:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

No tangible reason to change the article as it stood on 19th November has been asserted. Therefore one assumes that the edit that is negative towards Mr. Garside has been conducted by the same detractors who did this in 2007 and 2009. We cannot allow this kind of harrassment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dromeaz (talk • contribs) 12:13, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Quotations

Quotations should be used judiciously to support notable content in articles. They should not be overused to avoid overwhelming the encyclopedic presentation of Wikipedia. Quotes should also be balanced in accordance to their overall importance of the subject. Garside is here because of his record; his marriage is worth a mention, but does not require justification per this. We want to avoid drifting towards the unencyclopedic tone used in earlier versions. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:50, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

(re above) Yeah, okay, that's fair enough. I see what you mean.

But with regards to erasing the "Afterward" section. I don't agree because www.swimmingman.com (the first swim around the world web site) is still on the Internet and the actual event of Garside marrying his girlfriend and support driver could be mentioned87.82.116.134 (talk) 11:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Afterward

In 2003, Garside indicated his intention to follow up his record-setting run by running across the Antarctic and swimming around the globe, with intentions to embark on the latter in June 2004.[10] Garside married his girlfriend in London in 2004,having met her in Venezuela in 2000.

Can we get an official ruling on this sentence before it stays there? I mean he was supposed to start running in Antarctic and swimming around the globe in 2004... it is 6 years later. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 14:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

"In 2003, Garside indicated his intention to follow up his record-setting run by running across the Antarctic and swimming around the globe, with intentions to embark on the latter in June 2004.[10] Garside married his girlfriend in London in 2004,having met her in Venezuela in 2000." -- It will stay because there is no real and valid reason for its removal. It is factual, supported, referenced throught this reference and throughout media worldwide. Also, www.swimmingman.com is still up on the Internet. Again, factual, referenced. Strange that you would want to change this text above.87.82.116.134 (talk) 21:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I wonder whether the person trying to remove valid and referenced content from the "Robert Garside" page is anything to do with the person on the "Franz Lidz" page that was butchered into touch by Wiki Administrators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.116.134 (talk) 21:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

No. I am removing something that never occurred. Unless there is a reference that he actually completed a swim around the world. I can say I will be flying around the world tomorrow with only my arms. That does not make it notable and encyclopedic material. Garside said he was planning to do something in 2004 and never did it. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, okay, relax. The only reason it was there is because it had been reported worldwide in the media. But yeah, okay, even though the first swim around the world web site - www.swimmingman.com - is still there, there had been no updates on that for a while, so okay, you got it. 217.41.237.222 (talk) 12:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Are you the same who is posting at 87.82.116.134 ? CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 18:44, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

RunningMan

As per reference #11 on Reuters and #9 on ABC, RunningMan is a title Garside gave himself. "...Calling himself “The Running Man,” Therefore my edits seems correct. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 22:49, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

No. This is your attempt to minimalise "The Runningman", which has been reported throughout the media since 1996! Robert Garside is known as "The Runningman", it is more than a case of him calling himself "The Runningman". Your attempt to minimalise is suspicious. I would love to know your true identity. Dromeaz (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

There is another thing. The correct protocol is "The Runningman" There is no capital "M". Dromeaz (talk) 12:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

And finally. There is no valid reason supplied by you to pervert the current edit, which also does not read well. Please do not drag this into another edit war. Simply discuss and justify your reason to change the current edit, as suggested by Moonriddengirl. Dromeaz (talk)

Once again, ABC and Reuters is saying "...calling himself the Runningman" I am not saying it. My "identity" is quite frankly irrelevant. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Another reference here: "Garside, 40, who during his quest called himself the Runningman" http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL2666293420070326 and here "Robert Garside, the self-proclaimed "Runningman," http://web.archive.org/web/20020204025552/www.trailrunnermag.com/news/news.html CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for 'confirming' your identity. You reference to a historic web archive is ridiculous and I see where you are headed. It will not work. Don't bother wasting your time trying to CHIP AWAY at this well-written, well-referenced story Mr. Detractor. That is who you are and that is what you are about. I know exactly who you are and I know what your aim is. Your aim is to mix things up and stir up trouble just as you have done for the last 10 years. Your contributions are pointless as they just clearly aim to devalue Robert Garside, who is know as "The Runningman" world-wide and to chip away at the article. There is no point editing this article 'side-ways' it is fine as it is. Again, discussion in the discussion area and please do not vandalise this article any further. 92.15.243.46 (talk) 15:07, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Finally, your contribution adds no value to the current article and clearly you aim to pervert it and devalue it. Your sneaky edits aren't surprising to me, nor are the various user accounts you use to camouflage your identity. I know who you are! Please stop it. Dromeaz (talk) 15:15, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

The only person whose identity is clear is yours, Mr WP:SPA. Do not accuse other users of vandalism, seek their identity, or otherwise disrupt the normal discussion processes. Rd232 ^talk 15:21, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

There are a couple of people who is trying to pervert the Robert Garside page (because they are jealous of his achievements. For example he is a world record holder who achieved a first and also the recipient of an official commendation in California, whereas "The Runningman Day" is notable day on 29th September), but we'd never know because his reputation is being hijacked by highly unsporting detractors, both then and now. There are a couple of people know are know to us who have - for TEN YEARS - been attempting to hi-jack his reputation, so yes, we are here to ensure that does not happen. No secret about that. As previously stated, no justification to change the existing article has been provided and no value has been added to the article. Simply, the tactic being used now is to CHIP AWAY at the article and devalue it in small ways. THIS TACTIC HAS BEEN NOTED, IS BEING MONITORED AND IS SOMETHING WE WILL DEFEND NOW AND FOREVER. Dromeaz (talk) 15:31, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Based on the previous can we make an assumtion that Dromeaz a sockpuppet of TheLongestRoadToIndiaGate ?? CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 15:58, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Nice catch. Indefed for block evasion. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:20, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Weasel Wording

Ok... we need some kind of ruling it seems... we have references (see above paragraph) from ABC, Reuters, nzherald.co.nz, Guardian.co.uk, Metro.co.uk, Reuters-UK and Trail Runner Magazine stating that

• Calling himself “The Running Man,” Garside is nearing the United States,
• Garside, 40, who during his quest called himself the Runningman
• Robert Garside, the self-proclaimed "Runningman,"
• But Garside, styling himself "the Runningman",
• Robert Garside, who dubbed himself 'The Runningman',
• ... also known as Runningman"

Is it weasel wording to use "Robert Garside, calling himself The Runningman" ? or "Robert Garside, the self-proclaimed The Runningman" ? Or do we leave the "Robert Garside, also known as The Runningman" ? (EDIT: Or do we just remove the Runningman reference?)

CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 19:05, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

If there is a wholly independent source (I haven't looked, sorry), which can support the notion that he is widely cited as such only the latter. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I've went through all the references... they either do not mention "Runningman" or use one of the cites I have listed above. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Only saying, only because you helpfully asked, AKA is the only way to go. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

? how so ? Rd232 ^talk 21:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

The other wordings would need to be cited to independent sources. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

What, like the 7 sources CanadianLinuxUser mentioned above, taken from the article? Sample: "Garside, styling himself "the Runningman"..."Guardian Rd232 ^talk 21:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Then if you think the sources support it, do it if you want. As I very straightforwardly said before, I wasn't citing the sources. I was only talking as to policy. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite

Looking to rewrite the following:

Garside's achievements have been questioned by some other runners and by some members of the press.

with parts of this:

Established athletes and authorities from the world of ultramarathon running (distances greater than the standard marathon of 26 miles 385 yards) have all voiced astonishment at the resilience of a man who has never competed in a monitored ultramarathon event.

Thoughts on rewording so as not to violate WP:NFC ? CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 00:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

First draft: Established athletes and authorities of the ultramarathoning world are astonished at his claims. Garside has repeatedly had to refine his claims after admitting to lying about his achievements

Urrrrk.... I may be coming out too strong... I'm trying to keep it neutral but these are the words of Andy Jones and Jesse Dale Riley. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 11:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that's coming out too strong. :) Can I ask what you feel is lacking in the current dispute section? That might help determine how best to address it. (For example, your "admitted to lying" statement is covered in the The Daily Telegraph statement.) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Sure... you mentioned it on my talk page. Whitewashing... "Garside's achievements have been questioned by some other runners and by some members of the press." That line was whitewashed a tad. When the ultramarathoning community, folks who actually know what they are talking about, are astonished at claims... I think their voice matters. I only have a few marathons under my belt so anything after 42km is new territory to me. But like I said, when runners who know what their talking about, claim there is something fishy, I think their comments should be mentioned. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

What about strengthening the sentence to read, "Garside's achievements have been challenged by other runners and by some members of the press"? Specific details are provided in the content that follows. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:26, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Good point... let's not get hung up on specific details... maybe "Garside's achievements have been challenged by ultramarathon runners and by some members of the press"? Some athletes are astonished by his claims. Specific details are provided in the content that follows." (Add ref here) CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the value added of "Some athletes are astonished by his claims", though "Garside's achievements have been challenged by ultramarathon runners" seems fine. "Specific details are provided in the content that follows" is not really encyclopedic, imo, and also not necessary, since the specific details follow. :) We'd basically have to say that for every sentence in the lead, since the lead summarizes the article. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:36, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

References

Duplicate sections

The record & Ratification are essentially the same thing... objections to merging both into The record? CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 01:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

12/21 revisions

In this series of edits, I did the following things for the following reasons:

• Removed the COI tag. The content has been vetted and aside from one remaining fluff quote ("I'm really happy about this, this run cost me everything."[10] I think this adds nothing of encyclopedic value to the article, but it's harmless) it does not seem promotional.
• I've removed the top header of "Biography". I don't remember who, but somebody pointed out to me recently that these are all biographical articles.
• Rearranged chronologically. I've put the dispute that precedes the authentication prior to the authentication. There is no record to indicate whether the authentication changed these people's minds, I think. If they made significant statements afterward, those might be worth including providing overall balance is maintained.
• "The record" section now contains only information on the record and its authentication. The official ceremony has been moved into aftermath, in part to keep that section balanced.
• "Afterward" becomes "Post-authentication". It includes the ceremony, the disputes that followed the authentication, and Garside's marriage. I have also returned the information on Garside's intention to seek additional records. Whether he achieves them or not, they are related to his notability (he is a record-holder). I do not believe myself that it glorifies him to note his intention to seek these records or that it detracts from him that he evidently has not done so. It's just a fact that he said these things.

Looking for current references, I found a section devoted to him in Getting Into Guinness, a 2009 HarperCollins book. I've used one detail from it. It discusses the run and the disputes about the run in several pages.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss these changes. The conversation may go somewhat slowly with the holiday, but I'm sure we're all interested in maintaining an accurate record here. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

In the Afterward....or Post-authentification... section... I'm still questionning the sentence... "In 2003, Garside indicated his intention to follow up his record-setting run by running across the Antarctic and swimming around the globe, with intentions to embark on the latter in June 2004." Here we are 6 years later and Garside has not updated this "announcement" either in a website or newspaper. Is this announcement notable... after 6 years? If there was a website or newspaper article with preparations... news... training... something of the sort... detailing his intentions to begin this announcement... then it would be notable... That would be my interpretation of the notability of the announcement... The reason being is the person who made the announcement, lied... quite frankly many times according to the reports... about a great many things... so we need more than just an announcement from a less than reliable source to make in notable. That is my personal opinion... and that's the reason I removed it previously... and why I would like it removed once again. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 14:34, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Obviously, I disagree that it should be removed. It doesn't matter if he followed through on his plans or not, if he ever made preparations or not; he announced this as his intention. His intentions were notable enough to merit mentions in the press. If he said he had achieved it, we might be concerned about verifiability, but there really seems no need to demand extraordinary verification for what he intended to do but did not achieve. We'll see, though, where consensus falls if others choose to weigh in. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:57, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I know... I'm biased :-D but I won't shove my opinion down anyone's throat either... LOL. I'm trying VERY hard not to do the Soapbox... glad someone as levelheaded as MRG is here to hide the box :-D CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

LOL They are coming in hoards to give an opinion... me thinks folks avoid this article like the plague because of past attacks... where can we look for unbiased opinions? CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:16, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

It's probably not that urgent a question for the people who do watch the article, since it's not really a WP:BLP issue either way. :) We can ask at WP:3O. Would you mind dreadfully waiting a few days before we do so? I'll be traveling for the holidays later today and won't be back until the 29th, and I'd really like the opportunity to take part in the conversation. The content was in the article for at least a year and a half before its removal, so I would think that a few more days wouldn't be critical. But if you feel strongly that you'd rather not wait, I can live with review in my absence. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Of course it's no rush... just the last day at work... no work to be done :-D We'll pick this up after the holidays... a very Merry Christmas to you and yours. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 13:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. :) And to you as well! --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:49, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

3rd Opinion

Afterward section: "In 2003, Garside indicated his intention to follow up his record-setting run by running across the Antarctic and swimming around the globe, with intentions to embark on the latter in June 2004." Considering the extraordinary claim and considering it is years later. Looking to remove it... Opinions please.—CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 17:28, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Since you aren't responding but requesting, I've neutralized the template around your comment. To any who care to respond, please see the section above. The essential difference of opinion here stems from my contention that there is nothing extraordinary about his claim to take action, which is documented in reliable sources; it would indeed be an extraordinary claim if we implied he had achieved it, but we do not. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

As I mentioned on my talk page... gotta make sure I get it right next time a dispute like this happens :-D Thanks CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 18:06, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

No problem. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

FYI: I find this as an extraordinary claim and would fill it under the same claim as "I intended to flap my arms and fly around the Empire State Building." Swimming around the world alone falls under that same category... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence or more preparation that the author is citing. . CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Again, this would be true if it were a deed that the subject claimed to have accomplished. It's not, though. If he were quoted in press as saying that he intended to flap his arms and fly around the Empire State Building, do you not think that would merit mention in his article? I certainly would! :) Whether he achieved the deed or not, he went on the record as saying he intended to attempt it, and that record was reported by media. It is not up to us to draw conclusions about the plausibility of this; we're only here to neutrally report what reliable sources have said about the subject. It's a single sentence, and I don't think it is undue weight. Hence, I don't think there's any reason for us to remove it. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:25, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Grrrrrr.... I'm starting to agree with you !!!! So much for needing another opinion. LOL LOL Sorry for arguing... seems "He who shall not be named", does bring out the "best" in me CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 18:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Controversy Guiness

It seems Guiness also gave the title of "the first man who ranned around the world" to Jamel Balhi. Jamel realized the same exploit between 1987 and 1990. Obviously before I put anything in there, I'd like opinions about it. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 16:11, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

(From the 2nd link) Jamel Balhi raconte sur son site www.coureur-du-monde.org qu'il a couru 27 000 km à travers 26 pays entre 1987 et 1990. Le record aurait été validé par ce même Guinness Book, qui annonce aujourd'hui que Robert Garside est le premier...

(Poorly tanslated by me) Jamel Balhi tells on his site www.coureur-du-monde.org that he ran 27 000 km through 26 countries between 1987 and 1990. The record was validated by the same Guiness Book that is annoucing today that Robert Garside is the first...

• http://www.runningonearth.com/en/link-to-see-the-route-on-the-map/62-controverse-autour-du-monde.html
• http://www.ultrafondus.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=270%3Atour-du-monde-en-courant--qui-cest-le-premier-&catid=13&Itemid=27&lang=fr (French)
• http://www.coureur-du-monde.org/Parcours-Jamel-Balhi.html (Website in French of Jamel Balhi)
• http://planetultramarathon.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/jamel-balhi-running-the-world/

It seems that all we know is that Jamel Balhi claims that Guinness gave him that title. We've got some problems with sourcing. Per WP:BLP, only high quality sources can be used. The first website is a WP:SPS, and it doesn't indicate any authority for the claim. It's just out there. As to the second website, I'm not sure who ultrafondus are, but they seem to be citing their information to Jami Balhi's website, which doesn't substantiate anything. At best, we might indicate that Balhi had made the claim, but I'm not sure if its sufficiently notable to do so. As you say above, it is an extraordinary claim evidently put forth by Jamel Balhi; the question is if we can verify it. He is not simply asserting that he did the deed, but that Guinness acknowledged it. :/ --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

This is my proposed edit (With a reference to the 2nd link)

According to Guinness' endorsement, Garside ran through 29 countries on six different continents over a period of 2,062 days. Controversy exists however since Guiness already gave the title of "The first man who ran around the world" to the French man Jamel Balhi. Jamel realized the same exploit between 1987 and 1990 jogging 27 000 km in 26 countries. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 17:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

We have no evidence other than Balhi's word and a couple of blogs that Guinness did this. Ultrafondus may or may not be a reliable source, but they say "Jamel Balhi tells on his site...." They do not give any other authority for Guinness bestowing a record. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:29, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

We also have Jamel Balhi who wrote various books on it. http://www.coureur-du-monde.org/index-7.html .... but we have Guiness actually giving the record. I'm as confused as the next guy considering all these books have been published before Garside ran... CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The question is whether we can confirm that Guinness had any part in this. If so, that would certainly be worth noting. But, as you indicate above, extraordinary claims need evidence. This guy may or may not have run around the world, but if Guinness ratified the run, there should be evidence. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:37, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

How dare you use my own words against me ????!!!! LOL LOL Yup agreed... Guiness ratified it... quite a few Ultra Runners do not consider Guiness to be expert in that area but that debate is irrelevant to the matter at hand. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 17:40, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

No using them against you, just reasonable discussion. :) The point of this article, of course, is that he "is credited by Guinness World Records as the first person to run around the world." It doesn't say he's the first person who did it. It doesn't even say he did it. It simply factually notes that Guinness World Records has credited him with the deed. The dispute to the run is worth noting; a controversy regarding whether the run had been credited to someone else by Guinness would certainly also be worth noting, but we have to verify that Guinness did credit it. Otherwise this man's contention that they did could be based on a misunderstanding. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

• I have accessed www.guinnessworldrecords.com and used their search facility to search for robert garside and then garside which both returned zero matches. I then searched for walk and circumnavigation and did not find a single reference to Robert Garside. There are 15 earliest circumnavigation records listed including one for walking but nothing relating to running. Hence although Garside's record may have originally been recognised it looks like recognition was subsequently rescinded. The main article should note the fact with a simple statement such as Guinness World Records subsequently withdrew recognition of this record and as at July 16, 2011 have not recognised anyone to have completed a circumnavigation by running. I am new into this discussion so I leave it to others to review the validity of my proposal and proceded accordingly. Thanks, Boatman (talk) 15:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Ummmm I'd double check with Guinness first to confirm that it has been withdrawn. Just because it is not on their site, does not make it rescinded. I have no clue as how to confirm such a thing tho...CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 16:09, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Addendum... from the FAQ on the Guinness site: "Why is my record not on the website? There are more than 30,000 record categories in our database, and only a proportion of these records can feature on the website. We currently house about 3,000 records online, but we'll be adding more every week, so make sure to check the site regularly CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 16:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

New Article on Robert Garside

I wanted to let editors know that a new article about Robert Garside has appeared in the August, 2012 issue of Runner's World Magazine (I am the author of the article.) It addresses the Guinness records "delisting" question, as well as some of the other issues involved. I didn't want to edit the Wikipedia page directly because (1) I'm not experienced at doing so and (2) I don't want to appear to be promoting my own article. The article is not yet available at the official Runner's World website - that will happen in a few weeks, at most, as the magazine goes off newsstand sale - but it is scanned and downloadable as a PDF at my website, here. I hope this post is appropriate for this page; if not, please correct/edit as you see fit, and thank you Soulbarn (talk) 16:45, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Having edited the article in February 2014, I came back to it and found this article when looking for further sources this weekend. So the article has been updated and includes the linked article. I noticed the note here afterwards, when I looked to see any other points that might have been raised on this page just now, so replying as a courtesy, and yes - your caution and approach concerning appearances was The Right Thing^TM. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 11:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Dead Link

Suspicion haunts man with world at his feet http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article880611.ece is now http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/article2249993.ece but behind paywall. CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 19:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Updated. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 21:17, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Moonriddengirl. You might want to check you e-mail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.170.214 (talk) 21:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I responded to you at your other IP: [11]. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 22:56, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The general public know that this article is littered with falsehoods, bias in terms of weighting and thus incredibly far from being encyclopedic. How on earth can this rubbish pretend to be fact? It is mere propaganda and a poor attempt to re-write history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.170.214 (talk) 01:11, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Additions

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100828&page=1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2841547.stm http://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities-news-in-pics/13-06-2003/11206/ http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-20000221-article27 http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/globetrotter-takes-long-way-around-iraq/240544.html http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/02/athletics.uk?INTCMP=SRCH http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/03/26/uk-britain-runner-record-idUKL2666293420070326 http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/around-the-world-in-2066-days-1-652057 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.170.214 (talk) 00:53, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

REMOVE BACKLINK

A telegraph story 11 years old is not a "new story". It is well-known SEO strategy called a Backlink (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlink). Please remove the Telegraph link posted twice for it has no other reason to be there.

No. Please read this, and also reading WP:AGF certainly wouldn't hurt. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 01:01, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand. Why has a link to an 11-year old story been posted twice on the Talk page? For what purpose?

It's used a reference up above (I've added a template so it's moved to that section). And what does it's age have to do with anything? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 01:12, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if something is a "new story" or "not a new story". I edited the biography of a 1945 dancer a few years ago. The sources for her awards were all from the 1940s. Those weren't new stories either. They were just relevant ones.

Editors are usually pretty good at seeing if a link if purely there for promotion. Age is not an issue. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 05:01, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

When you initially added the said link twice (why twice, not just once?) you wrote that it was a "‎New Article on Robert Garside" It is not new. It is 11 years old. That is one point. The next point is, If you add it twice then that potentially impacts on Google search results. I.e. it moves a negative story up the search rankings. Because those two links are now acting as two backlinks. Please would you remove one of those backlinks as a show of the "good faith"(WP:AGF) that you previously mentioned?

1. Please start signing your posts.
2. Again, please actually read my first post above and understand that links on Wikipedia do not affect Google search results.
3. Try to get your facts straight. FT2 did not add the references, CanadianLinuxUser did.

--NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

CanadianLinuxUser added the said link twice to affect - and it does affect - Google search rankings. That person has a long history of editing this page negatively. PLEASE REMOVE ONE OF THE LINKS!

APPEAL FOR ASSISTANCE

1. This Talk page is being sneakily edited whereas NATURAL BACKLINKS are being added to affect Google search results. For instance the link that is being discussed here, (a) has been added twice, and (b) for no valid reason.

2. Please remove this duplicate backlink.

3. It has been asserted that "links on Wikipedia do not affect Google search results". This is not the case. See this article: http://www.tricksbag.com/get-backlinks-without-spamming/

Enough. It's bad enough you're throwing unsubstantiated accusations around, but you're compounding that by clearly not understanding what you read. From your "source": "Wikipedia never asks users to link to them nor it gives links to anyone." --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

One is not "throwing unsubstantiated accusations around". I have discovered a ruse in the form of a link posted twice here on the talk page. The links serves as no contribution towards the article whatsoever and appears to have been posted here TWICE for SEO purposes. Please would you remove it?

No. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:59, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Then kindly explain to the general public *WHY* the link has been posted TWICE as opposed to ONCE.

If you look at Talk:Robert_Garside#Rewrite you'll see there are two different footnotes for two different proposed sentences. And are you somehow unable to sign your posts? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:40, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

NB: It would work *EXACTLY THE SAME* if the link was posted just ONCE, but it has been posted TWICE. WHY? It is a very simple and valid question, given that this was posted by CanadianLinuxUser, a person with a multi-year history of *solely* negatively editing the Robert Garside page and/or Talk page.

Warning : The reflist template simply renders any formatted references, and nothing else. There's nothing long with referencing news articles in discussing how to improve an article. If you continue disruptively removing a harmless tag, you will be blocked from editing. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:09, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2016

Hi—I am Dan Koeppel, the author of the Runner's World story that is mentioned in this article. Currently, the Wikipedia entry links to a downloadable PDF copy of the Runner's World story, hosted on my personal dropbox. Beause Dropbox is soon to invalidate all public links, it would be better and more authoritative, I suggest, to link directly to the story at the Runner's World website (the story wasn't available there for several years, thanks to some issues with photographic rights; those have been resolved.)

If you agree, please change the link. Here it is:

http://rw.runnersworld.com/selects/the-runningman.html

Thank you (I am not making the actual change myself because I am—obviously—a non-objective party; it is my preference to leave this simply as a suggestion for Wikipedia's editors to consider). Soulbarn (talk) 23:25, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soulbarn: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. The article's wikitext does not contain the string "dropbox" at all. Where is this link? Pppery 19:22, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2024

His website is no longer live. 146.198.123.75 (talk) 21:30, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done I've replaced the website with archive links. Liu1126 (talk) 22:10, 3 January 2024 (UTC)