Talk:Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church

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Name for article[edit]

russian rites a Russian Orthodox Oldritualist Church - should probably be moved to Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church. --Ghirlandajo 08:49, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Seems a right move. Let's give it a day or two to see what others say. Then we'll just move it. Since the other page is empty, it won't require posting at WP:RM for vote and approval. --Irpen 15:34, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

It's two distinct churches ? Why do you want only one article ? 82.126.97.208 09:52, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think it is two distinct churches? mikka (t) 21:49, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dear all, I believe the title Russian Old-Orthodox Church isn't good. Old-rite or Oldritualist are much better. The Old-Orthodox translation sounds heretic. Arseni 15:48, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, gentlemen... Russian Old-Orthodox Church (Russkaya Drevlepravoslavnaya Cerkov) and Russian Old-Rite Orthodox Church (Russkaya Pravoslavnaya Staroobryadcheskaya Cerkov) are two different churches with different "genealogies" for their hierarchies. "Old-Rite" translates "staroobryadcheskaya" and "old-Orthodox" translates "drevlepravoslavnaya" - and it's not heretic to call them so, Arseni, it's just their traditional self-designation. I agree, both terms sound clumsy, but so it often is with translations. With respect to translating "staroobryadcheskaya", I believe, "Old Rite" is best we got. Thanks. Ouital77 19:17, 18 September 2005.

I have removed the "merge" tag from ROROC and ROOC articles. It seems the tag was misplaced to begin with, and the I have said why in my previous comment. Thanks! ouital77 11:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Hierarhy[edit]

What do you think about moving the leaders of Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy from this article into the corresponding article (Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy)? I think it would be rather useful. Arseni 16:26, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

POV[edit]

What does 'noncanonical' mean? It doesn't seem NPOV to me. Zach (wv) (t) 21:03, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

'noncanonical' is a technical term, meaning 'nonmainstream', irrelevant to pov/npov issue, just as the word schism. mikka (t) 22:31, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to have more connotations that just 'nonmainstream', like 'having not followed the canons of the [Orthodox] church'. Would they describe themselves as noncanonical, or see that as an insult? Zach (wv) (t) 17:41, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The "non/un-canonical jurisdiction" in ecclesiastical parlance usually means "not having a valid/canonical origin in the eyes of the mainstream Orthodox churches" such as Patriarchates of Constantinople, Moscow etc. Certainly, Old Believers won't describe themselves as such - for them, it is Moscow Patriarchate who have fallen from truth (and, ergo, the canons too). And Zach's maybe right - it may sound slightly derogatory (the same as calling them "schismatics"). Surely, in my eyes, there're some canonical problems with this church's origins - but would you put that in the encyclopaedia article? I think we should look for a better word, "noncanonical" is too one-sided. I suggest: "ROORC is an Eastern Orthodox Church of Russian Old Believer tradition, born from the schism etc." - or smth. like that. I open it for suggestions. Ouital77 19:34, 18 September 2005

Maybe something along the lines of "considered noncanonical by most Eastern Christians", perhaps adding "including the Patriarchate of Constantinople", etc...? Zach (wv) (t) 22:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is a schism in Russia between modern and more traditional Old Believers and the metropolia of Braila has broken communion in prayer with the more modernistic Russian Old Rite Church and entered communion with the more traditional Vladika German who is the head of the Old Orthodox Church of Christ. The schism between Vladika Kornilij and Vladika German occured in 2007 and on May the 29:th 2008 the Braila Metropolia broke communion with the Russian Old Rite Church established communion with the Old Orthodox Church of Christ.

Watch this.

http://latvia.mitropoliya.org/images/braila_20080529_page5.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.224.97.132 (talk) 10:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Watch this.

http://www.staroobrad.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=266 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.224.97.132 (talk) 10:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]