Talk:SECR N1 class/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Malleus Fatuorum 23:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Background

• "The design and construction of larger engines was precluded by low permitted axle loadings on parts of the SECR network". The design and construction weren't precluded, it was their use.

• "... this material failed to 'lock' the track in place". Why is "lock" between quotation marks?

Design and construction

• "The retention of the 2-6-0 wheel arrangement meant provided ample accommodation for the large N class tapered boiler with Belpaire firebox." There seems to be at least one word too many in that sentence. Probably ought to be a hyphen in "N-class tapered boiler" as well.

• "The N1 also retained Walschaerts valve gear on both 'outside' cylinders. The use of quotation marks there is puzzling; was the valve gear really not outside at all? Why was it called inside if that's the case? Similarly with "This consisted of mechanical links fitted to both sets of 'outside' Walschaerts gear". I also note that "inside" isn't between quotation marks in the lead image's caption.

• "This was fitted with a large superheater, regulator valve and snifting (anti-vacuum) valves." I guess this is probably referring to the smokebox, but in starting the sentence with "this" after listing a number of features in the predeeding sentence it's not at all clear what it's referring to.

• "The main design differences with the N class included the cab front ...". Not sure what "with" is saying there. Are we talking about the differences between the N1 class and the N1 class?

• "This incorporated a two large single panes of glass ...". Again, what is "this" referring to here? The revised layout? In general, starting a sentence with "this" is likely to lead to uncertainty and ambiguity.

• " ... instead of the four smaller versions used on the N class". Versions of what? Panes of glass? Can you really have versions of panes of glass?

• "Finally, Maunsell and Holcroft anticipated that the three cylinders would produce a fierce exhaust blast that necessitated a wider-diameter chimney than that used on the N class." Using the word "finally" suggests that there's a sequence of events here, but I don't see it.

Prototype

• "However, Ashford works was heavily engaged in tackling a backlog of repair and maintenance work produced by the First World War with little spare capacity for new construction projects, whilst approval for the construction of the N1 prototype also coincided with a priority order for 15 2-cylinder N class locomotives." How did the war produce a backlog of repair and maintenence work? "Whilst" also implies some synchronicity, that these things happened at the same time.

• "Maunsell decided to construct the prototype N1 locomotive from parts intended for use on the next N class locomotive". Shouldn't that be "N-class locomotive? Similarly in "the high-set N class boiler", shouldn't that be "N-class boiler"?

• "It entered traffic on 24 March 1923, and the boiler pressure was reduced ...". That doesn't quite work. It entered service and the boiler pressure was reduced?

SECR and Southern Railway

• "The rebuilding of the prototype in 1930 provided an opportunity to apply the Southern Railway's new system where Maunsell's 2-6-0 locomotives were renumbered into one sequence." Using the word "where" implies a location, but there isn't one here.

Performance of the N1 class and modifications

• "This resulted in improved riding characteristics on the footplate at low speeds whilst precipitating a reduction in mechanical wear and the effect of hammerblow on the track." What does "precipitating" mean here?

• The review is now on hold for up to seven days to allow time for these issues to be addressed. Malleus Fatuorum 15:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Editor's reply 1

Malleus, some good points raised in your review, and they have (hopefully) been rectified. Just a small issue, I do not agree with your suggestion to hyphenate to 'N-class', as I am referring to the SECR N class locomotive, which doesn't and shouldn't feature any hyphens. In all sources consulted there is no reference to an 'N-class' variant in locomotive terminology, and so the article should retain the 'N class' version for historical accuracy, if not for grammatical correctness. Otherwise, I was happy to implement the rest of the review's findings. --Bulleid Pacific (talk) 22:41, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I probably wasn't clear; I wasn't suggesting that N class should be hyphenated generally, only when it's being used as an adjective rather than a noun, as in "N-class boiler". Malleus Fatuorum 23:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

BTW, I don't feel strongly about this, so if you still disagree no harm done. Malleus Fatuorum 23:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. I see what you mean, but does the adjective (ie. in the example 'N class boiler') really need a hyphen in this instance? Whilst it does describe the noun (ie. boiler), the adjective is also a noun in itself (ie. N class). As far as I can tell, there is no problem with nouns being used to describe nouns, particularly when in this case the describing noun is also a proper noun in other instances. Its a bit of a dilemma that has potential ramifications for other articles. --Bulleid Pacific (talk) 02:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

As I said, I'm not going to stick on this, but maybe it's something to think about anyway. My old-fashioned view of grammar is that nouns don't describe other nouns; anything describing a noun is an adjective. I suppose you could argue that "N class boiler" is a compound noun, but strictly the "class" could apply either to the "N" or to the "boiler", therefore a pedant like me would like to see it hyphenated so as to avoid the (admittedly slight) ambiguity. Your choice though.

In other news, this article clearly meets the GA criteria, so we can close the review as a listing. Malleus Fatuorum 02:11, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• "Maunsell and Holcroft anticipated that the N class chimney would choke the fierce exhaust blast produced by the three cylinder. To mitigate this, a wider-diameter chimney was cast for the locomotive." I think blastpipe is meant here- the chimney encloses the blastpipe, and increasing its diameter without increasing the size of the blastpipe wouldn't have any effect. Ning-ning (talk) 23:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes, that is correct, and it has been changed accordingly. --Bulleid Pacific (talk) 01:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.