Talk:Sable Island horse

almost 300 hourses run wild in sable island N.S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.76.194 (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The name of this article should actually be changed to Sable Island Horse - it is a common misconception that they are ponies. I don't know where the average height measurement came from either, but there are several ongoing studies of the horses from which I will try to get information. HiFlyChick (talk) 00:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Please source your information. Horse breeds task force consensus is that If there is a registry or organization dedicated to the breed, we can go with whatever they call them, horse or pony. Barring that, if there is an entry on the breed at the International Museum of the Horse site, that will also work. But please provide a verifiable source, per WP:V. It will be a bit of bother to change it if we need to, because other articles will also have to be corrected, so please provide a source. The only thing that's a bigger bother is to change it and then have to change it back! Montanabw^(talk) 03:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The Green Horse Society web site (http://www.greenhorsesociety.com/Horses/Horses.htm) has all sorts of information on the Sable Island horses; it was created and is kept up to date by Zoe Lucas, a biologist who has lived on Sable Island for over 30 years and has been documenting the horses for decades. Although it is not dedicated exclusively to the horses, it does cover them quite extensively. This past summer, there was also another biologist named Phil McLoughlin who is starting a long-term study of the horses, including conformation details such as size. His URL is http://www.usask.ca/biology/mcloughlin/HiFlyChick (talk) 11:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that I would definitely put a redirection from the old title to the new (if you decide that it's worth it to change), since a lot of people seem to think they're ponies - might have something to do with the book/series "Pit Pony", a story about a Sable horse taken off the island to work in the Cape Breton coal mines. Since this happens to be one of my pet peeves, though, I'll leave the decision to someone who's been here longerHiFlyChick (talk) 19:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

OK. I'm OK with the change. First though, I'd put that source in the article as a reference, just for starters. Then, if you change the name, be sure to use the "move" command so the talk page and page history goes with it. Using the move command automatically creates a redirect. But there is more to do: There is also switching the article from the Pony section to the Horse section at List of horse breeds and using the "What links here" tool in the toolbox to fix all double redirects. Holler if you need help. Montanabw^(talk) 04:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

Sable Island Pony → Sable Island horse – It appears that these are horses and not ponies. How horses came to Sable Island, Provincial Horse Act, Sable Island Horses, Free as the wind and Philip Dunstan McLoughlin. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 18:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• DONE. You didn't need a move request, just discussing at talk. This was pretty clear-cut. Montanabw^(talk) 22:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sable Island horse/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 14:51, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• Interesting breed, I'll review this one. FunkMonk (talk) 14:51, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
• "Many Sable Island Horses have a natural ambling gaits." Why gaits in plural?

• Typo, fixed. - DB

• What breeds are these horses descended from?

• A mix of French, Spanish and English originally, with more thrown in later. Added a bit on the early ancestors. - DB

• In the "history" section, it says " The Acadian horses were descendents of several shipments of French horses, including members of the Breton, Andalusian and Norman breeds, later crossed with horses from New England, including Spanish Barbs." we typically put this information into the history section of the horse breed articles. --MTBW

I think that was added after I asked? FunkMonk (talk) 20:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• Are they considered an actual breed, even though they have not actually been bred to look like they do? How are they unique?

• Eh, they're more of a landrace, but none of the sources actually call them that, so I just wiggled around it by calling them a "type". Most of the sources just say they're a feral herd on the island. However, genetic studies (discussed later in the history section) have shown them to be genetically unique, although related to a bunch of other N. American and European breeds (obviously, as they're descended from them). If they're genetically "[divergent] enough from other breeds to deserve special attention by conservation interest groups" that makes them more unique than a lot of the other late-20th century designer "breeds" out there. - DB

• Yes, the definition of a "horse breed" is pretty broad, take a look at the history section, I think it's explained. There's also no clearing house for determining what is an "official real breed" for horses akin to the AKC for dogs. (which, speaking only for myself, becomes a problem in the other direction when people want to define their designer crossbreed horses as a "new breed" - phooey ) Horse breeds in the historic period (and even today in much of the world) tend to be less intensively managed by humans than are, say, dogs. Horses left to run in semi-feral conditions usually develop traits linked closely to their habitat, but this doesn't mean that humans don't get involved at all; here, you note that, first, humans made conscious decisions as to what kind of horses they brought to the island, then today, they make conscious decisions NOT to add outside blood.--MTBW

Any physical distinctions which are not found elsewhere? Interesting that they have become distinct over such short time, must have been a lot of inbreeding. FunkMonk (talk) 20:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Nope, they're pretty much just horses. I get the feeling that the initial herd size was pretty small (less than 100 animals, I think), and even with the other blood tossed in later, the small breeding population would have led to quite a bit of inbreeding. Add in harsh climate conditions and poor nutrition weeding out any weak stock and you can change the genetics of a herd pretty quickly. Dana boomer (talk) 22:10, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• How large is the island? Is island dwarfism relevant to their size?

• Added a bit on the size, location, composition of the island. Size is a factor of nutrition, foals born and raised on good food off-island are larger (added a bit in on this). - DB

• Possibly, certainly the tough living conditions play a role, but I think we'd need a WP:RS saying so to be able to put that in, and I don't think we do, unless Dana has something...? (Dana?)

• "Thomas Hancock purchased the horses and transported them to the island in 1760." Why?

• I have no idea. The sources just say he turned them out loose on the island. May have been as a breeding herd, may have been planning to go back and get them later (this is all OR on my part), I don't really know. - DB

• "The first horses were brought to the island for pasture" Pasture is only mentioned in the intro, should be mentioned in the article, and elaborated if possible. And it should be linked.

• Did a bit of reworking on the intro. Added the bit on pasture to the history section (with link), although this just basically means that they grazed on the island. - DB

• How large is the population?

• Discussed in the second paragraph of the Characteristics section - it varies quite a bit depending on weather conditions. - DB

Ah, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 20:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• This image seems quite relevant for the history section: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sable_Island_Ponies_after_being_unloaded_from_Steamer,_to_be_sold_at_Auction,_Halifax,_Nova_Scotia,_Canada,_ca._1902.jpg

• Added in. Good find! Don't know how I missed that when I was writing the article. - DB

• And by the way, Faroe pony could need some love, if you ever need something to do! I hear they're near extinction, and I grew up hearing about them. FunkMonk (talk) 15:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• Hmmm, there doesn't seem to be much out there on the Faroe pony, source wise. I'll have to take a look and see if there's anything more to dig up. It's unfortunate that a lot of the breeds that are the most distinct and have the most to contribute genetics-wise to the overall horse population are the ones that are disappearing the fastest.

• LOL! Get Dana past these two GAs she has pending (I think she has three up right now, actually) and about three other articles she and I are working on together, and I bet if you sweet talk her she could add it to the queue! (grin). Montanabw^(talk) 19:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Heh, shouldn't take long with your current rate! FunkMonk (talk) 20:49, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I think I've addressed everything above; please let me know if you have further comments. Dana boomer (talk) 19:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

FunkMonk, thank you for your review, I hope this answers some of your questions and that Dana can answer the rest. Please let us know if you have further questions or comments. Montanabw^(talk) 19:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• I have one more question about physical features above, but apart from that, I'm ready to pass after your next reply. A shame a few things weren't explained further in the sources, but that's not your problem! FunkMonk (talk) 21:00, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Alright, passed! FunkMonk (talk) 22:17, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Needs date of introduction

none listed... thoughts? Island dwarfism section? are there other pygmy horses on islands elsewherE? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.194.204 (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)