Talk:Safavid art

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Translation notes

I'm translating this from the French Wikipedia article.

Here are some things I'm a little unsure of while translating; maybe others can help with these points.

The French is generally in the present tense and I'm generally translating into past tense in English. I think maybe this is the right thing to do. Obviously the events are in the past; it's just a question of what's conventional for this style of writing. Comments on this are welcome.

present is the generally admitted time for narrative writigs in french, assuming that it might not be the same in english

2nd paragraph of "Historical context", 2nd sentence: "opposée à": I'm not sure if this translates as "opposed to" or "across from". --Coppertwig 01:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I've translated the "rite imamite" as "imamism (Twelvers)".

= Twelver Shi'ism (rite = cult, religion ; imamite = of/with the imams) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.15.92.33 (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I've translated "coup d'arrêt" as "stopping point".

=Sudden stop

I can't parse one sentence; I suspect it may have a typo near the word "ne", or is using a grammatical construction I'm not familiar with. The sentence containing "...dont l’ascendance divine est fortement remise ne cause..." (3rd paragraph of Historical context, 3rd sentence). I've simply left out "ne cause" while translating. --Coppertwig 13:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

=Typo: en

I've left "ghulams" as "Ghulams", not being familiar with the term. --Coppertwig 17:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

turkish soldier-slaves (near the meaning of mamluk) Safavids being issued from tucophonic north west of Iran, generally used turkish troops such as qizilbash, ghulams. As pillars of the army, these units helped securizing the safavid power and their domination on the persian military.

I've translated "remuant" as "contentious" ("troublesome" would be an OK tranlation too, I think). Literatlly "stirring" or "agitating". (The people Abbas I replaced in his administration.)

OK

I don't understand "lambris" clearly so I'm going to gloss over it, at least for now. "Le décor est constitué de lambris de marbre jaune, de niches ménagées dans les côtés avec de riches stalactites, et d’un revêtement de céramique" in section about "The mosque of Sheikh Luffallah". --Coppertwig 20:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

=Panelling, wainscot

The French article had the size of the Shah Mosque as 140 metres by 130 equalling 1800 square metres. I figured the 1800 was a typo (a factor of 10 off) and corrected it in the French article to 18000, because 140 times 130 is 18200. I also added here "about the size of 3 football fields" which is not in the French version; I figure a football field is about 60 metres by 100 metres based on [1] which makes 6000 square metres, just about exactly a third of the Shah Mosque. --Coppertwig 21:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Here, that was you helping us ;-)

De part et d’autre du bâtiment se trouvent deux madrasa. seems to me to mean "in one part and another of the building ..." but I'm not sure of that. --Coppertwig 21:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

= in one side and another, beside on right and left

Also in the Shah Mosque section: "manteau bleu" is a blue coat, but coat in the sense of a coat you wear; I don't think they normally use "manteau" for coat of paint. Some sort of metaphor is being conveyed here -- maybe "blue mantle" will cover it. --Coppertwig 21:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

exactly, you got it right. We damned froggies are fervent users of metaphoric formulas (so more beautiful) :-)

In section "he Allaverdikhan bridge": "premier ministre géorgien de Shah Abbas": not sure whether to translate as "first minister", "prime minister" or something else. Anyway, apparently a minister under the Shah. --Coppertwig 21:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

= prime minister

Same section: words I haven't necessarily translated properly (yet): "continuité", "emmarchements", "miroirs". --Coppertwig 13:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

=continuity or continuance , steps or stairs or stairing , mirrors

I suspect "sinisants" means "Chinese" or "eastern" but haven't found it in dictionaries. From context it doesn't seem to mean "sinusoidal". (Section "Sous Shah Ismail et Shah Tahmasp".)

= influenced by China

(cartouche --> scroll pattern)

I couldn't find a translation for "rumies" but it's just given as another name for the anthemions anyway.

It is a technical word admitted to name some kind of decorative figures of sharpened palm trees

I'm translating "plat" as "plate". Anyway, some sort of thing for holding food. Maybe "dish" or "tray" would be more appropriate. --Coppertwig 23:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

=dish

At the end of the "Metallic art" section, I don't understand en particulier par ajourages, pour réaliser des éléments de placage de porte et d’étendards. "placage" seems to be metal-plating, i.e. like veneer. ajourages seems to be piercing decorative holes in ceramic pots. I don't get whether "porte" means "door" literally here or what, or what "étendards" means; one word list translates this as "standards"; maybe it has something to do with standards in the sense of military flags. --Coppertwig 17:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ajourage = decorative holes anywere, not only on pots, but on windows, walls etc.... Placage = veneer, porte = door (speaking of metallic decoratives elements of doors). Etandard is far more difficult to translate as it speaks here of some kind of elements of signboards or banners.

Hard stone section: I'm translating "anse" as "handle" and "coupe" as "blade". --Coppertwig 22:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

OK

Not sure whether to translate "tapis" as "carpet" or "tapestry". I'm going with "carpet", except in the title of the section, where I've chosen to translate it as "tapestry". --Coppertwig 18:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Re carpets: "notamment par le dessin des motifs". Not sure if this means the design of the motifs is evidence that the sovereigns were personally interested, or that they were particularly interested in design of motifs. --Coppertwig 18:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Carpets, rugs, or even tapestries as some were used as murals. en.Tapestries and fr Tapisseries have the same root: tapis. And oh yes, they (sovereigns) were pretty interested, any deco in the palaces always took into account what the king desired. Some arts even were officials, some were also practiced by royal familly members for artistic teaching during Safavids(such as Khatam Kari). regards pentocelo 12:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm translating "rehaussé" in bookbinding as "embossed". I suspect it means raised, i.e. some parts of the book cover stick out more in the shape of the design. However, it might just mean decorated.

I'm translating "sablé d'or" as "sprinkled with gold"; literally "sanded with gold".

I'll have to look up "prégnance". --Coppertwig (talk) 04:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• The silhouettes became more "élancées": I'm translating as "slimmer"; maybe taller while just as thin?
• encartage: some sort of technique involving attaching a page or something? ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 01:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

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