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This not even start class. A lot of the article needs to be sourced. --evrik(talk) 15:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. While B-class seems to me plausible, I would accept Start class. Stub class is too low, however:
Start Class: The article has a meaningful amount of good content, but it is still weak in many areas, and may lack a key element. [...] Useful to some, provides a moderate amount of information, but many readers will need to find additional sources of information. The article clearly needs to be expanded. Substantial/major editing is needed, most material for a complete article needs to be added. This article still needs to be completed, so an article cleanup tag is inappropriate at this stage.
Stub Class:The article is either a very short article or a rough collection of information that will need much work to bring it to A-Class level. It is usually very short, but can be of any length if the material is irrelevant or incomprehensible. Possibly useful to someone who has no idea what the term meant. May be useless to a reader only passingly familiar with the term. At best a brief, informed dictionary definition.
The article is not so very short, nor is it irrelevant or incomprehensible. It is much better than a brief dictionary definition. It does lack a key element, however, namely sourcing. It provides a moderate amount of information. Substantial editing is needed, and sourcing needs to be added. That sounds to me much more like Start than like Stub. I will upgrade, but leave it below B-class for now.--Bhuck (talk) 09:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would propose moving this article to to St. Mary's Church, Hamilton Village, Philadelphia. The preferred format for naming articles on Episcopal churches in the United States is to add city, state after the name. This would be too long and Philadelphia, being a major city, can stand on its own without the state name. Hamilton Village, though, is not as well known and needs some further identification. Also St. is preferred because of its brevity. Consideration is also made of which form the church itself uses. In this case the church itself uses both forms on its website. Please comment. clariosophic (talk) 13:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose They call themselves, "St. Mary’s Church, Hamilton Village — The Episcopal Church at Penn.". [1]--evrik(talk) 14:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's way too long for an article title. Anyway "The Episcopal Church at Penn" is really descriptive, not titular, and should be included in the article itself. The point remains that Philadephia should be added to the title. clariosophic (talk) 15:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The town that existed when it was founded was Hamilton Village. Again, oppose the move. --evrik(talk) 15:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I thought Hamilton Village was a neighborhood in West Philadelphia. Would the general reader outside Philadelphia or the Penn community, even know where Hamilton Village is? There isn't even an article on it. Let's hear from some other editors. clariosophic (talk) 15:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would mildly oppose the move. While the Saint/St. issue is not particularly interesting--either way is fine--I think that unless we get too much ambiguity (are there other churches called "St. Mary's, Hamilton Village"? If not, no ambiguity), there is no need to add the "Philadelphia" to the name. Anyone who clicks on the article can learn that Hamilton Village is in Philadelphia--there is a bit of information in either West Philadelphia or the article on the pre-annexation borough or whatever about Hamilton Village. If people are interested in churches in Philadelphia in general, or in West Philadelphia in particular, then using categories would be the best way to locate the article. Because there are several St. Mary's churches in Philadelphia, the name of the city--even when accompanied by the denomination--is not a unique way to identify the church, which is the reason that the city name is added in most cases. We are not complying with rules (such as "add the city name") for the sake of the rules, but for the reason that the rules were passed, and when the reason does not apply, an exception to the rules should be made.--Bhuck (talk) 09:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
