Talk:Sans (Undertale)/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: Greenish Pickle! (talk · contribs) GoatLordServant (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Pokelego999 (talk · contribs) 12:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

No way it's Sans Undertale. Will try to get this done in the coming days. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 12:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Greenish Pickle! (talk · contribs) @GoatLordServant (talk · contribs)

Review

Six Good Article Criteria

1. The prose is riddled with numerous typos and errors, but I'm willing to give it a pass since overall the article is well written and says what it needs to.

2. Most info is in the article, and any not cited information has been pointed out below, and it only applies to plot info. Earwig picks up no major copyright violations beyond the direct quotations.

3. The article, I would say, is not broad in its coverage. Nearly all of the sources in the article's Reception are trivial and do not aid in an understanding or analysis of Sans. While some sources do help, there is not enough here to establish a proper Reception section beyond something incredibly- and pardon the pun- barebones.

4. Article is neutral, and does not take a stance on a particular issue or topic.

5. Article appears stable. No major edit conflicts in the days prior to editing nor recently.

6. Article has two fair use images and a fair use media file. All three have valid uses and rationales in the article.

Lead

-"and first appeared in" change and to who.  Done

-"Initially appearing as a friendly NPC with an easy-going, laid-back personality and also the brother of Papyrus." is not a proper sentence, I'd change this to "He initially appears as... and is also the brother of Papyrus."  Done

-"He was originally created as a character to make more skeleton puns, though Fox did not like this idea as it was not humorous enough, so he scrapped it." Confused on this since Sans wasn't scrapped? Reword this to be more clear.  Done

Concept and design

-"and at this point in development the character was called "Comic Sans" after the typeface, described simply as the brother of the game's second boss Papyrus, following the same naming scheme." A bit of a run-on sentence. I'd shorten this a bit.  Done

-"Sans refers to itself in as サンズ/Sanzu, which may refer to the 三途の河/Sanzu River, also known as the "Sanzu no kawa" or the river that separates life from death, and judges for those that pass it." Change "itself" to "himself" and fix up grammar at the "judges for those that pass it" section.  Done

-"Sans uses oira, and anta, and sometimes omae towards his friends and he also switches his gender-neutral speaking style into omae and ore when he is either being serious or talking to his brother, and then also uses sentence finals such as sa and na." Run-on sentence once again. I'd split this sentence.  Done

-"When Sans meets the main character, he tells a story where he again switches to "Kansai ben" about a meeting he had in the woods. He only does this once, and in other ways, he speaks the standard language." Entirely confused as to what this is supposed to mean. The following sentences are also very confusing, especially as someone entirely unfamiliar with Japanese as a language. I'd add clarification for the various things you're referring to here because this is entirely unfriendly to readers without this knowledge.  Done

-Your sourcing on the language stuff mostly seems to hail from a master's thesis. I am unfortunately unfamiliar, but I'm not entirely certain of the reliability of this source in regards to the info you're trying to verify. I'd suggest trying to find a better source, unless I am completely wrong, in which case correct me. **It has been cited multiple times, and this whos that the master's thesis is reliable (It has been also used in other Undertale articles by other Users as well). GreenishPickle! (🔔) 23:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Appearances

-"Sans is a skeleton wearing a blue jacket, black shorts with white stripes, and white slippers." not really relevant to the appearances.  Done removing

-"Unlike his brother Papyrus, Sans claims has no interest in capturing humans." Add he, which I've done myself since it's a minor fix. I'd also suggest finding a better source than a quote, but that won't affect the article's potential promotion either way. This appears to be trivia now.  Done removing

-Source the info of Sans following the player through the Underground.  Done

-The quote used for Sans's phone call does not support what you're saying. Find a better source for this.  Done

-The cut content appears for fitting for "Concept and design" than appearances. I'd also remove the "Afterward."  Done

-"Outside the Undertale" change to "Outside of Undertale"  Done

-Remove the comma after "where" in the sentence about his Deltarune appearance.  Done

Promotion and Reception

-I'd change "being featured" to "such as" in the second sentence of the second paragraph.  Done

-The Kotaku quote seems to be trivial coverage, as it only covers Sans's associations with Gaster, and the "endearing" quote is a single sentence.  Done removing

-Change "he said that he is" in the Dualshockers quote to something like "stating that." I'd also shorten the quote to cut out the teddy bear bit.  Done

-The Polygon source seems pretty trivial. Good for showing his popularity but the comments themselves don't add much.

• I dosagree with this one, polyon of all other sourced you mentioned here seems to be valuable to me.

-"Destructoid writer CJ Andriessen believed that Sans' appearance in Smash Bros. had increased to his desire, and thought that he was too late to play Undertale." Firstly, the grammar here needs improvement, with "increased to his desire" being better as "increased his desire." Secondly, this sentence does not contribute anything to Sans's notability, referring more to the game to him. Thirdly, this is a trivial mention, with the article only mentioning Sans once.  Done removing

-Not critical but you can definitely expand the Reception with the info from the parasocial relationships paper. There looks to be a lot in there at a glance.  Done not really a lot in that article, as we should only cite what he says in the conclusion. So expanded now.

-Sans in the Klausen article is a trivial mention, and the article and quote themselves are more about the game than Sans.  Done removing

-The Walker Kotaku quote appears to be relatively trivial. Not terrible but it doesn't provide much.  Done removing

-"Writer Frederic Seraphie compared the battle with Sans to "breaking the fourth wall," stating that genocide happens in the game, notably in the fight with Sans. He considered using genocide as a metaphorical way to "break" Undertale after concluding that it is the most ludonarratively dissonant game mechanic. He continued by saying that the battle against Sans disrupts numerous processes." Genocide being in the game is a bit of a given, given that we just had the Genocide Route described to us. Try shortening it and removing the unneeded context. Also, I'd use a term not as wordy as "ludonarratively" given that not many readers will know what that word means. Additionally, what "numerous processes" does Sans disrupt? How does he do it? I can't access the source due to a citing error, so I can't really comment on its reliability or analysis content, but I'd improve this section a lot.  Done I jist ended up the disruptive stuff being removed as it looks irrelevant

-The leitmotif article just states whenever Sans's leitmotif pops up, and offers no commentary, with even the bit being cited just showing how a different theme evolves the Sans leitmotif (Which is in and of itself a trivial mention.)  Done removing

-The 700 Club source doesn't really ad d much. It just states a minor incident happens with Sans and moves on. The summary is unneeded, especially the direct quote, and in my eyes doesn't constitute as SIGCOV.  Done removing   -Add quotations to the Destructoid quote at the end of the Tumblr Sexyman paragraph, since that's a direct quote from the article in question.  Done

-Technically not Reception, but the source about Patrick and Sans doesn't really need to be given as external reading. If it's important, cite it in the article. Done removing

Overall

I frankly cannot pass this article. There are too many glaring issues or problems present for me to say that this can be passed, and edits of the magnitude needed are too much to justify putting this GAR on hold. My advice for the nominators would be to find in-depth sources discussing Sans, akin to a couple of the sources used (Sources like the ones discussing Sans and Papyrus's relationship, the Parasocial relationships, etc) instead of trivial mentions, and to either remove or condense those. I would also patch up the various grammatical issues and clarify the Concept and design section so readers can better understand it. I do hope my comments will help with further improving the article, however, and I wish the nominators the best of luck with improving this article in the future.

Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I already fixed it and renominated for another reviewer to check it. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 23:27, 23 March 2024 (UTC)