Talk:Sieg Heil

Sieg hail simply means hail victory.

Actually, it could also be interpreted to mean "victory" [and] "salvation" (or some permutation thereof), which tracks with what the Nazi Party used to achieve their dastardly agenda.

VICTORY. Germany in the aftermath of World War I was totally defeated (the antithesis of "victory"), thus a victory [via a "do over" in the form of World War II] against those who "totally defeated" was necessary (this may have been the crux of the Nazi decision to attack the Soviet Union, as Russia was a World War I opponent of Germany).

SALVATION. Those subjected to it -- the "totally defeated" -- needed some sort of "salvation" from the very real, negative consequences of The Treaty of Versailles, and the Nazis promised to do just that

Adolf Hitler and his closest Nazi consultors (note the religious connotation of the word "consultor") aimed to do so by making 'der Führer' not only a strong political leader under the title of "Chancellor," but also in a quasi-religious sense: as a "Savior," and in turn, Nazism the new and eternal "religion" of the Reich, which points to the Nazis systematically eradicating indigenous religious practice, largely as a function of the Holocaust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:CA00:12B:33F8:0:0:C6E:C8E3 (talk) 04:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Tongue-in-cheek?

What phrase cannot be used in a tongue-in-cheek manner? We might as well add this comment to every single article from Fifty-Four Forty or Fight to Ave and it wouldn't get us anywhere. Besides, I don't know how it is in the US, but saying "Sieg Heil" anywhere in Europe, even if you don't really mean it and think it's funny, will probably get you dirty looks OR chased out of town with pitchforks and torches OR arrested, depending on location. --Rueckk 13:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

In the west when someone says "sieg heil", 9 times out of 10 they are being sarcastic. --Battlefield 00:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? What does this mean, that France and Germany do not belog to the "west" you are referring to? Maybe "In the United States' South-West" would be more accurate. If in Germany someone says "Sieg Heil", it's a Neo-Nazi in 9 out of 10 cases.[citation needed]

Deleted expansion request

I removed the request. The article's length is appropriate to the topic. --Halcatalyst 21:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

For The Win?

"Sieg Heil is a German phrase, which literally means "For ensured victory", or "For The Win"."

As far as I know, Sieg Heil means "Say hail".

From dictionary.com:

v. hailed, hail·ing, hails v. tr.

1. 1. To salute or greet.
   2. To greet or acclaim enthusiastically: The crowds hailed the boxing champion.
2. To call out or yell in order to catch the attention of: hail a cabdriver.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.95.130.13 (talk • contribs)

"Say hail"? Sounds rather questionable. "x Heil!"/"Heil x!" was a common phrase in earlier times, the latter of which is practically identical to "Hail to the x!" (e.g. "Hail to the king!" -- like "Heil dem Führer!").

"Sieg" most likely DOES mean "Victory" here, or success in general. As much as it cries for photoshopping, "For the win!" is a pretty accurate, although incredibly humorous, translation.

It's more of a blessing than an actual salute. Unless there's some archaic meaning I'm not aware of, "Sieg" NEVER meant "say", though, and "Heil" has little to do with "hail", although both may share linguistic roots.

Being the politically incorrect bastard I am, the idea of an assembly of SA guards saluting Hitler and shouting "FTW! FTW! FTW!" made me giggle rather badly. I guess Germans CAN laugh about the Third Reich. — Ashmodai ^{(talk · contribs)} 22:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It's worth pointing out that that "definition" was added on 1 April. I changed it to "Hail victory", which seems like a good literal translation to me. Kairos 18:44, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

And this is the one and only exact translation. "Sieg" means victory in German and has nothing to do with any form of the verbum "sagen" that is "say" in english. I gotta know, I'm a bloody hun :) --217.17.197.166 14:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

In addition to salvation or welfare, heil means things like healthy, complete, in good shape. This would make Sieg Heil mean more like "complete victory" or "total victory" which makes more sense based on the way it was used.

"Hail victory" certainly seems acceptable to me. And "Hail" and "Heil" certainly are very close, as explained by someone else on the Nazi salute discussion page. --OliverH 14:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I always understood the German word "Heil" to mean prosperity or according to www.leo.org, "Salvation". the verb "Hail" in German, to my knowledge is strickly "Grüßen". I think a more accurate translation would be "Victory, Salvation" - which seems like something the Nazis would say ;) Perhaps then "Heil Hitler" is something to the effect of "Our salvaging leader, Hitler" or "Hitler, our salvation" 207.112.71.9 21:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Greeting

Well... as far as I know (and from what I can say as a native speaker and citizen) the greeting was used in ancient Rome, greeting Caesar (well I got that from my Latin classes at school.) It was "Salve Caesar" back then and the gesture was the same. I never really gave this a deeper thought, but now I will. I would actually consider "Heil Hitler" a means of originally greeting him and wishing him well. Greeting others naturally kept him in the memory of the populace and I'd say that it was still directed towards Hitler. Sieg Heil therefor is a combination out of two things: Wishing Hitler well and hoping for victory. Concluding I cannot give a better translation. I do not know whether or not "hail" would be completely right, but "salvation" surely isn't. I would tend towards the translation "hail". This got the following reason: There is a Catholic prayer entitles "Hail Mary". The Latin version (and the translation) is "Ave Maria". "Ave" is another word for "Salve" that was used in ancient Rome (as described above). If you want it literally I would personally tend to the translation "Victory Hail".Janet1983 03:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Legal Situation

I think the legal situation needs to be expanded on, right now it looks outrageous. You most definitely won't be jailed for using the phrase in regular dialogue talking, for example, about this article. You won't be jailed using it in a greeting for a stage or film production. But if you are part of a crowd greeting the local Rabbi as he leaves the Synagogue in such a fashion and you can be pretty sure to find it in your legal record. Basically, it is covered by the same terms as the use of the Swastika. As soon as you use it in a fashion that suggests you support the ideology behind it, you're in trouble. But if you produce a movie set in Nazi-era Berlin, you'll have little problem getting authorization to flag an entire street with it -if you have the money. --OliverH 14:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Sections 86 and 86a of the German Strafgesetzbuch state that whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda [...], the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

Whoever domestically distributes or publicly uses [...] symbols of one of the parties or organizations [mentioned above] shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. Symbols [...] shall be, in particular, [...] slogans and forms of greeting.

[This] shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. If guilt is slight, the court may refrain from imposition of punishment pursuant to this provision.

I guess that means art, research, teaching = OK. Political campaigns etc = not OK. Jokes = OK (either "guilt is slight" or art). I'll try to write a sentence or two about that tomorrow. --Greenb 23:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding "political campaigns", there just was a much lambasted court verdict that even a "crossed out" Swastika (or rather, one included in a prohibitory traffic sign mockup) is forbidden, even though it is a statement against Nazism. However, this decision is likely to be appealed and what's more, plans are to specify the above paragraphs to make certain this usage is not prohibited anymore. --OliverH 08:25, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Sieg Heil as a greeting

"When meeting someone, it was customary in Nazi Germany to give the Hitler salute and say the words "Sieg Heil"."

That's not correct. When giving the Hitler salute you were expected to say "Heil Hitler" and not "Sieg Heil". "Sieg Heil" was mainly used on events of the NSDAP and not as a normal greeting.--217.85.114.224 12:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Additionally Sieg Heil does not mean "Victory, welfare" - not even literally - but rather "hail to victory".--217.85.114.224 12:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I also find it difficult to believe that it was actually common for people to say this to each other—Nazi officials, yes, but the average person? I don't believe it. Sounds like more of the "If it's about Nazis, anything's believable" kind of statement. (I read once it was only after the assassination attempt of July 20, 1944 that Hitler made it mandatory for Army officers to greet each other with "Heil Hitler", but even then they only did it if there was a SS officer or known regular-army Nazi fanatic present.) Historian932 (talk) 04:25, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

This is found in Hitler salute article. And yes, it is unlikely for the Wehrmacht to stay so reluctant, if all the civilians would indeed use it in a "customary" manner. But still, I think that the "average person" generally supported Hitler, whether they used the greeting or not. --Kubanczyk (talk) 09:55, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

translation of "Sieg Heil"

This is one of my favorite discussions. That's the only reason I'm contributing on such a pointless thing.

But someone has said that "Sieg Heil" does not translate even literally as "Victory, Welfare". Actually, it does. If you were to look up each word, literally, in the dictionary, Sieg means Victory, and Heil (capitalized) means welfare. The idea that Sieg Heil means "Hail to Victory" is simply wrong. I also read somewhere that the reason Heil comes at the end of the phrase is due to german grammar? There is absolutely no grammatical rule that requires Heil to come after Sieg. "Hail to Victory" would be translated like this:

Victory is masculine, so it is Der Sieg. The actual term for "Hail"...meaning 'to greet', is "Grüßen". Since it is the Victory that one is "Hailing", and since Grüßen takes the accusative form, the polite form of the phrase would be "Grüßen Sie den Sieg!", while the imperative form would be "Grüß den Sieg!" or "Grüß Sieg!"

Now, "Heil" does not really translate into English. Yes, it is othrographically similar to the english "hail"...and yes...the two words might share some of the same entymology...but they mean far different things. The English "Hail" simply means "to greet". One "hails" a taxi, a boat, a chief. It means nothing beyond "look! here I am...and look! there you are. We acknowledge each other's presence!".

 But in English "hail" does not mean simply "to greet" and it does mean more than just "look...we acknowledge each other." It is a term of                acclaim, e.g. "Hail to the Chief", "Hail, Hail Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hail the Conquering Hero". It is, therefore, very much like heil, viva, etc.Venqax (talk) 01:42, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

The German "heil" (if forced to relate it to something) is similar to the subjunctive verb forms of "vive" and "viva" in romance languages....meaning roughly "live on!" or "long live!". The German "heil" can also mean loosely "health", "saftey", and "general wellness"....hm....WELFARE! just try any german translator. http://dict.leo.org/ is generally regarded as one of the most reliable, as it is used primarily for technical businesses that need to get it right.

Also keep in mind, that "Heil" if 'adjectified', becomes "heilig" and "heilige" which means saintly, or holy. A term for the Bible is "Die Heilige Schrift"...the holy text. "Der heilige Geist" is the holy ghost.

So...of all the things on this page...the idea that "Sieg Heil" means "For the Win" is actually the most realistic. It is taking a certain degree of license...but it actually captures the flavor of the phrase...which is a subjunctive....a WISH. LONG LIVE VICTORY! FOR THE WIN! it's kinda like the Japanese "BONZAI". Likewise, "Heil Hitler!" is the equivalent of "Long Live Hitler!"

To the editor: I'm sorry my post is all over the place. I'm at work, and writing in a hurry. Please feel free to cut out of this whatever you see fit. I would hope though that you keep at least enough to make the point.

Also...try using any German-English translator you can find...and try to make Sieg Heil mean Hail to Victory. You'll find it utterly impossible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.236.0.66 (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

Being German, I think that "Hail [to] victory!" is a pretty good translation. If you say "Hail to the King!" in English, a German translation would be "Heil dem König!". "Heil Hitler!" is not equivalent to "Long Live Hitler!", because there's a literal translation for "long live" in German as well, which is "lang lebe", and it's pretty common. Of course "hail to the king" and "long live the king" basically mean the same thing, but that doesn't make "long live Hitler" the best and most literal translation. Yes, "Heil" can be translated to "welfare", but it can be translated to a lot. For example, the Salvation Army is called Heilsarmee in Germany. "heil" can also be the imperative of "heilen", which means "to cure" (there's that joke about two psychologists meeting during WWII, where the one says "Heil Hitler!" and the other one "Warum heilst du ihn nicht?" ("Why don't you cure him?")). So, using a dictionary and not knowing about the German language can take you anywhere. "Sieg Heil!" doesn't mean "Victory, Welfare!" because in German you would need that comma as well. And a last thing: In some parts of Austria, people still greet themselves with "heil" or "heile". The are even well-known phrases like "Ski Heil!", "Petri Heil!" among fishermen (referring to Saint Peter) and "Waidmanns Heil!" ("huntsman's hail") among hunters. Conclusion: In my opinion, "Hail [to] Victory!" is the best translation, leading to "Heil Hitler!" translating to "Hail [to] Hitler!" and "Heil dem Führer!" to "Hail to the Leader!". --Scytale.de 10:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. But what we're arguing is literal and I believe you may be using the word incorrectly. Literal means, 'word for word' and 'verbatim'. So, "Sieg Heil" cannot mean "Hail [to] Victory" (literally), because as you and I have both pointed out, there is a grammatical deficiency in that translation--primarliy, the absence of the dative. I don't just use a dictionary. I know German as well. I will yield to your historical argument, being that German is not my Muttersprache, so you would know best. However, what I think we've both inadvertantly agreed upon, is that "Sieg Heil" cannot, in fact, be "Hail [to] Victory" literally. If you offer that as the closest figurative translation, I could see that as being a possibility. However, I maintain that the flavor of the exclamation is closer in meaning to the subjuntives of 'Vive!' and 'Viva! than merely saying "Hail [to]." Another reason I am of this opinion is that the phrase was often used during rallys and speeches, in which a speaker would offer "SIEG!" and the crowd would volley "HEIL!" Now, linguistically, these two words could act upon one another, or they could merely compliment one another. Imagine the english equivalent of old rallys where a crowd would exclaim "PROGRESS!", "FREEDOM!". Are they saying "[to] progress freedom" or simply the exclaimation of both as a celebration of each in its own right? In other words...is "progress" the noun, or the verb? The same can be asked of "HEIL". Furthermore, there is that weird question of why "HEIL" would come after "SIEG". You're the deutscher(in), please explain. If the only thing in question was "Heil Hitler", I think I'd be more ready to agree with you, but the existence of "Sieg Heil" in backwards form, leaves more to be explained.

translation of "Sieg Heil"

Don't know if it helps really, but I remember a few years ago my german teacher translating "Sieg, Heil" as the imperativ form of "to win, to cure". According to him, "to cure" was making reference to the jews which were considered in the nazis ideology as a disease of the human species. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.132.148.141 (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC).

While "heil" technically can be some form of the German "to cure", the intention behind it is different with "Sieg Heil." In my opinion, the best translation actually is the above, i.e. "Hail to victory!", or maybe "Hail and victory [to us/Hitler/etc.]!". --Greenb 09:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

"Heil Hitler" is similar to "Ave Caesar" (or "Hail Caesar") in Latin. "Ave" is an imperative, meaning "well-being to". Also, "heil" in German is also an imperative in this case (imp. of the verb heilen), and literally means "Well-being to Hitler", (or "health to Hitler"). Now, in the case of "Sieg Heil", "sieg' is the imperative (of the verb siegen), meaning to "to achieve", and "Heil" is the noun, meaning "well-being". "Sieg Heil" is simply "Achieve goodness or well-being", and in the Nazi period could be implied to mean, to acheive well-being for Germany and the Nazi cause. I'm guessing all the speculation and miss-translation is due to people not understanding simple German grammar. It's unusual that the article doesn't specify the grammatical meaning of the words - for example that "sieg" is imperative, and that "heil" is a noun (or whatever the current consensus is on the meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.148.210.141 (talk) 13:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I say "Sieg" and "Heil" are both nouns (not really sure about "Heil!", though), just like in "Ski Heil!" or "Berg Heil!". "Waidmannsheil!" and "Petri Heil!" seem a bit less perfect analogies as they refer to the person hailed (i.e. the hunter or fisher). What the "heil!" is for is all explained in de:Heil, a simple explanation would be something like "luck", "fortune", "being blessed". For examples of "Heil!" being translated to "Hail!" and vice versa, see Heil dir im Siegerkranz and Macbeth's encounter with the three witches. Yaan (talk) 17:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Quite an interesting discussion. Has anyone considered a pseudo-archaic/Roman intent via the Italian fascists? The salute was adopted from them, and this might be a similar instance. Bartleby (talk) 04:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

The interjection "Heil [dativ]" is commonly translated as "Hail to [...]", fullstop. The problem is that the English "hail" and German "heil" do not match exactly, the translation does just match in the specific context of a greeting. The ethymology refers to oldgerman/oldenglish "hael" which has a real meaning of "good luck" and "good fate". From that everyone can imagine its traditional usage as a parting phrase, <<"Heil Wanderer", good luck on your journeys>> which you can also use as a greeting to a passing wanderer on his trail. Modern German does not have constructive usage of it however - there is only a fixed series of greeting and parting phrases that make use of "heil (interjection)" which are similary fixed as the everyday "good morning" or "good evening" greeting where nobody thinks of it as a wish "may there be a good morning to you, Sire". You could do say so but it would sound overdone. The same happens to any of the Heil-greetings: it does generally just sound like an oldfashioned greeting form, nothing more. The Nazis were picking up the oldfashioned form retrofitting the "Heil"/"Good Fate" on the Führer ("Heil Führer") and army actions ("Sieg heil") but its frequent everyday usage in the Nazi era has sure degraded the meaning to a simple salute.

Apart from that English speakers should be wary that the etymologic root "heil" has other usages in modern German, especially in constructions where it is not an interjection. Don't mix them up - they are generally just homonymous but they can mean a totally different thing. Especially "heilen [akkusativ]" means "to heal s.b.". Note that the English term has again the same oldenglish etymologic root but "to hail" and "to heal" have evolved into different spellings while in German the two different meanings share the same writing. Similarly the adjectiv "heil" simply means "without damage" - due its different grammatic position nobody will get it wrong. The Heil-interjection is separate from that but most internet translators can not get it especially in such short phrases like "Sieg Heil" where the machine translation has almost no indicator about grammatic attributes - especially interjections are always a hard thing for machines to get an idea about. Guidod (talk) 16:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

["Victory Hail" or "hail victory"] is not entirely correct as the actual, literal translation from German to English is impossible without knowing the intentions of the orator. The numerous translations of this two-word phrase, could change the meaning to be something as innocent as "Save the Day". Given Germany's financial and political instability at the time, this plausible translation might make more sense. Instead of believing, blindly, what you've read from a "Trusted Source", please investigate for yourself, as I have done. WWW Refs: [1] and [2]) 71.237.122.211 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenb (talk • contribs) 16:24, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, Yaan's explanation from 19 February 2008 actually gets pretty close to an "actual, literal translation." I realize we can't go and ask Hitler, but the NSDAP's intentions are well-documented. In your references, I only see that "Sieg" means "victory" and that "Heil"/"heil" can mean several things (again, see above discussion). Where you get "Save the Day" from, I have no clue. --Greenb (talk) 16:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Is this completely a Nazi association?

I know everyone thinks of this as a Nazi slogan, and technically it was, but since "hail victory" sounds more like a battle cry or something you'd shout at a sports game, why would it be offensive? Surely this existed before the '20s? Does everything the Nazis touch turn to s%#t? Brutannica (talk) 20:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, this reminds me of many a college cheer. For example.... "RRRRR" - "YOU"! (Someone says the first letter, someone else says the second.) 68.36.215.251 (talk) 05:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, Rutgers uses a lot of red, white, and black in its school-oriented merchandise. Those happen to be similar colors to those of the Nazi flag. But the colors are pre-Nazi in origin (at least the red part is, which is the most important Rutgers color). 68.36.215.251 (talk) 05:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

A Red White and Black tri-colour was also used as a flag in Imperial Germany and was banned during the Weimar Republic because of its imperialistic and overly-nationalist connotations, so naturally the Nazi's used those same colours. D Boland (talk) 01:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

"Banned" does not really cut it. See de:Schwarz-Weiß-Rot or German flag#Weimar Republic. Yaan (talk) 08:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

In Catholic Yugoslavia during World War II, the Ustaša used a salute very similar to the Sieg Heil as Za dom! Spremni!

This is inaccurate

First of all...a Catholic Yugoslavia?!?!?!

The author probably means the Catholic parts of Yugoslavia-- i.e. Croatia and Slovenia-- as opposed to the Orthodox and Muslim parts of Yugoslavia; Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and most of Bosnia, not very difficult to assess. Venqax (talk) 17:05, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

And how come is Za Dom!Spremni! very similar to Sieg Heil salute??? Za Dom Spremni salute is old salute,but was banned in communist Yugoslavia because of the abuse by Ustase. It has nothing to do with Sieg Heil.Sieg heil was introduced by nazi's themselfs. Only Serbs see the ZDS salute as a negative one because it reminds them of the Ustase regime. But Croats see it as a patriotic salute because of it's origin(when Croats fought the Ottoman Turks) and the meaning.Za Dom Spremni means "For our Homeland,We are ready".--(GriffinSB) (talk) 14:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I've moved the entire section, including this mention, to the Roman salute. I don't see how these various salutes are connected to "Sieg Heil". In case Ustase used a different gesture, or were not influenced by Italians/Germans on that, continue on that page. --Kubanczyk (talk) 20:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)