Talk:Sili Province

Sili and Si

Silizhou and Sizhou are often equated, though it's unlikely they were synonyms for the same province at the same time. Reliable sources on both are scarce online.

This book reports on page 65 and 188 that Liu Yu, the later Emperor Wu of Liu Song, created Sizhou or Si Province before founding the Liu Song dynasty in 420, and that he made historian Pei Songzhi its governor. Liu Yu did this when he conquered the area of modern Henan from Later Qin. It's not clear whether this was simultaneous with the annexation of Later Qin in 417 (which seems likely) or earlier, but it cannot have happened after (at least not after 420, because Liu Yu wasn't emperor yet). As the article Emperor Wu of Liu Song indicates, he conquered Luoyang in 416 and Chang'an in 417 from Later Qin, corresponding to the territory of the Han province of Sili.

This seems to indicate that Si is simply an abbreviation of Sili, and that Sili Province no longer existed for some time, though knowledge of its past existence was not lost.

I've found an amateur historian claim that:

"On the Imperial Han Administrative hierarchy, Sili was not a normal province, with governors and inspectors, but the Imperial province per se. It was the Central Province, the center of the Empire, the center of the World. Yong province didn't exist to my knowledge, until the end of Han.


Yongzhou only appeared as an administrative unit after Cao Cao's administrative reforms, which amalgamated Liangzhou with the three Fu commanderies (Jingzhao, Zuofengyi and Youfufeng). Cao Pi, on his accession, suppressed Sili Province, and split it between Jizhou, Yongzhou and Yuzhou. Only with the creation of Jin was Si Province restored, not as Sili, but as Sizhou."

I've not yet been able to confirm Cao Pi's suppression of Sili Province in 220, nor the restoration as Si Province with the foundation of the Jin dynasty in 265. If true, it would explain a lot, but also raise the question how the Jin Si Province was lost between 265 and 417. The fragmentation of the Jin dynasty by the Sixteen Kingdoms in the 4th century is a likely explanation for why this northern province ceased to function before apparently being reconstituted in 417 by Liu Yu. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:05, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

It looks like Liu Yu's reconstitution of Sizhou didn't last long; Luoyang and Chang'an were conquered by Northern Wei in 439, and this 464 map of Northern Wei does not show any such province. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:34, 28 April 2018 (UTC)