Talk:Solomon Adler

Two Sol Adlers

An article in the November 17, 2014 issue of _New York Magazine_ relates hat one Sol Adler (not the economist) had been Executive Director of the 92nd Street Y in New York for 25 years.

Mao works translation

This article seems seriously flawed to me. Just two small points:

• Why is he called "Schlomer" in the article? I don't think that his name was ever spelled like that. Is that an anti-semitic jibe?
• I doubt that Adler, Coe and Rittenberg were translating Mao's works into English. (But in the eyes of an anti-communist westerner, what else should a foreigner do in China?) What are the sources for that claim? (Far Loon Goon?)

It is also weird that his family background, wife and children are not mentioned at all. Babelfisch 00:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The "Schlomer" is a direct reference as per the FBI investigation, which link to the FBI file should be available on the articles' main page pgs. 44-47 PDF format). Other pertenant biographical material is welcome. (Please note, in these espionage cases, all known names, code names, previous names, aliases, cover names, CPUSA code names and cover names, cryptonyms, foreign spellings, and maiden names, are included). Thank you for your interest and participation. nobs 01:51, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

As per the citation of Adler translating Mao, see John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, Yale University Press (1999), pgs. 144-145, text as follows,

Sidney Rittenberg, another American Communist who emigrated to China, wrote in a memoir that in 1960 Adler, Coe, and he were working together on translating Mao's writings into English. In 1983 a Chinese Communist journal identified Adler as having worked for twenty years for the Chinese Communist party's Central External Liaison Department, an agency that included among its duties foreign espionage. He also appeared in a photograph in a memoir published in China as a colleague of Henshen Chen, a senior official in Mao's government who had worked as an intelligence operative in the United States from the late 1930s until the Communist victory in China in 1949.

footnote reads as follows,

Sidney Rittenberg and Amanda Bennett, The Man Who Stayed Behind (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1993), 251; Selected Shanghai Culture and History Materials (in Chinese), issue 43, April 1983, Shanghai People's Press; Henshen Chen, Sige shidai de wo (My life during four ages, in Chinese) (Beijing: Chinese Culture and History Press, 1988). The authors thank Professor Maochun Yu for calling our attention to the latter two Chinese sources. When the United States established diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, Adler petitioned for and received restoration of his American citizenship. (pgs 412-413). nobs 02:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

"all known names, code names, previous names, aliases, cover names, CPUSA code names and cover names, cryptonyms, foreign spellings, and maiden names", not to mention spelling mistakes ... But in a Wikipedia article, those should be clearly distinguished, so I've changed "Schlomer" to "Salomon".

The book you mention may be published by Yale, but the way it quotes its sources is poor. "A Chinese communist journal" - that's a weird description, and the quotation is dubious - the authors obviously don't read Chinese at all. The man they call "Henshen Chen" is in fact Chen Hansheng 陈翰笙. Two spelling mistakes in one name - well done! Did they get that from Professor Yu Maochun over the phone? The fact that Adler is seen on a photograph next to Chen Hansheng proofs nothing, of course, and it isn't mentioned whether he is referred to in the text of Chen Hansheng's book - probably not. That book by Haynes and Klehr is a rather dubious source, at least in this case. Babelfisch 10:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Here is another source, the Adolphe Berle notes of 1939; will get full text and citation by name sometime today I hope. nobs 16:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Adolf Berle notes "Underground Espionage Agent" (1939), reprinted in the Interlocking Subversion in Government Departments, 6 May 1953, part 6, 329–330. nobs 19:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Adler's work on the English translation of Mao's work is questioned below as well as here, but there are verifiable references for this in both English and Chinese. A good English reference is the one mentioned above, S. Rittenberg and A. Bennett "The Man Who Stayed Behind" (Simon & Schuster, 1993, p. 250-256). This is Rittenberg's autobiography, and gives a detailed description of the translation process for the English translation of the fourth volume of Mao's selected works. According to Rittenberg, he, Adler, V. Frank Coe, Michael Shapiro, and Israel Epstein were the five foreign members of the "Finalizing Group". There were nine Chinese members as well, including officials such as Ji Chaoding and his brother, Ji Chaozhu. As Rittenberg explains, Adler's lack of Chinese language skills was not an obstacle:

We weren't the original translators. The Chinese team that did the basic translation worked apart from us in a guest house in a Beijing suburb. They were the best available ... But we outranked them. We were polishers, called the Finalizing Group. We had the last word on the style, accuracy, clarity, and fidelity of the translation. We could challenge anything and change anything. Some of our members, like [C. Y. W.] Meng, Tang [Mingzhao], and Ji [Chaoding] were minister-level officials.

A second English reference is in Ji Chaozhu's autobiography, "The Man on Mao's Right" (Random House, 2008, p. 267), which also identifies Adler as one of the translators. Describing a reception held by Zhou Enlai for "international friends", Ji says: "While translating Mao's work into English in the early 1960's, I had worked with some of them, including Americans such as Sol Adler and Frank Coe." Interesting to note, Ji also says that "all the attendees had been Communists."

As for Chen Hansheng, according to Rittenberg, Chen was also a member of the finalizing group. The picture of Adler and Chen mentioned above shows Adler and his wife talking with Chen; this is not a group photo as Babelfisch suggests. All of them are quite old, so the picture was probably taken in the 1980s. The caption says "Chen Hansheng and international friend Adler and his wife." Skimming through the book, I did not immediately find any references to Adler in the text. Rgr09 (talk) 22:09, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Two more English sources for Adler participating in the official translation of Mao's writing:

Israel Epstein (2005) My China Eye: Memoirs of a Jew and Journalist. San Francisco: Long River Press. Illus 53 is a photo of Mao with three foreigners and three Chinese; the description on pg. 357 states: “Mao Zedong with translators and editors of the English version of Selections from Mao Zedong (1964). Tang Mingzao [sic] (first left), myself (third left), Frank Coe (first right), and Sol Adler (fourth right).”

Adler's obituary in the New York Times ("Sol Adler, 85, dies; ex-u.S. China aide." (1994, Aug 5). New York Times, p. B6.) This source also says: "Sol Adler, the United States Treasury representative to China in World War II and a translator of Mao Zedong's works..." (However, much of the rest of the information in the obituary is wrong.)

For Chinese references, I found one article [1] by Xu Yongying's (徐永煐) son which originally appeared in Renwu magazine. I also found the text of a memo[2] from Xu to C.Y.W. Meng and Zhang Hanfu from 1962 stating that Adler had primary responsibility for reviewing the draft translations.

Since three of the finalizing group participants claim Adler played an important part in the translation group and there is documentary and secondary evidence, I take this point as well established.Rgr09 (talk) 00:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Name

Once again: His name is Solomon Adler. He also called himself "Sol". Names given to him by the CIA, FBI and other agencies can or even should be mentioned, but clearly marked. I've deleted "Schlomer" once again.

This declassified FBI document[3] mentions his name as "Schlomer Adler" in the section heading and once in an indirect quote of Whittaker Chambers, and repeats that name once again, but all the other references in the text are to "Solomon Adler" (eight times, including the paragraph with the title "Results of Investigation") and "Sol Adler" (four times). It's not clear at all why they call him "Schlomer" in these three instances. — Babelfisch 03:10, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

citizenship

The article says he 'emigrated' fron Britain to China. Did he become a Chinese citizen? When? Thanks Hmains 16:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Errors of Fact

This article contains a number of factual errors.

For example, Adler did not start working for Treasury until 1941. Previously he taught at a well-known U.S. university.

Adler did not move back to China until 1961 (or 62?), not "the 50s." He was invited by Zhou Enlai, whom he knew from Chongqing in the 40s, to work as an advisor on international economic issues.

The nature of Adler's employment in Peking is a matter of dispute. Adler's knowledge of Chinese was rudimentary, and he certainly could not read Chinese well enough to translate Mao.

The idea that Adler worked for the CCP's liason department is laughable. While there's no doubt that Peking took pains to extract as much information out of Adler as they possibly could--as is their habit with all "foreign experts"--Adler told me that they were mostly interested in his views on what was going on with international trade and global macroeconomic conditions. Moreover, the thought that a "big nose" would be allowed to work in such a sensitive party office is simply not credible. Adler was assigned to a think tank (Institute for World Economics) that served as his official "work unit" for much of the time he worked in Peking.

Looking beyond the factual errors, it's clear that the purpose of this article as it's written is to slam Adler for his involvement in communist espionage. Adler made no secret of the fact that he was a die-hard Marxist economist and fellow traveler. Seems to me the least Wikiworld can do is tell his story straight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.152.238.1 (talk) 13:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

B"H

My father was a first cousin of Sol Adler and they had opportunity to talk to each other at length when both were in NYC and when both were in Washington DC- 8 decades ago. I met and spoke with Sol Adler twice -- once in NYC with my father and other family in 1972 -- when he was traveling alone -- and once alone -in NYC in the summer of 1986 -- when he was visiting the US with his wife Pat. His much older brother was Prof. Shaul Adler. Most of the US Government Personnel records for Sol Adler are now available to be seen by the public-- after 70 years. Some of his friends called him Shleimie -- which is a common "familiar/friendly " Yiddish version of the name Solomon. He is named after his grandfather, R. Shlemeh[ normal Yiddish Pronunciation] Adler of KLetzk -[ a small town known at that time for its outstanding Yeshiva.] R. Shlemeh Adler was the 8th in a line of Rabbis from father to son. Solomon Adler would have been the tenth. His father, R. Sinai Adler, was a leading person in the religious Jewish community of Leeds, England. One of Sinai's younger brothers was R Yoseph Adler -- who founded one of the outstanding Yeshivas in the US - MTJ in NYC - with is own money -- and put it on a sound financial basis in the early years of the great depression. Sol had a cousin of almost the same age named after the same grandfather -- and with the same first name -- Sol. This was Sol Funaroff -- the poet. The custom of our family - like the sages of the Talmud -- was not to make money as a rabbinical functionary. I hope that you will get those personnel records and publish them -- then you will have a better idea of what kind of person you are writing about. There is an article in Wikipedia "The Dragon's Pearl" autobiography written by Sirin Phathanothai . She was the adopted daughter of Sol and Pat Adler. She has much in her book about them -- tho I have not read the book. As of this hour she appears to be alive and well. I live in Jerusalem and can be reached by email at avshadler@yahoo.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEwQPlzkcUk 132.64.101.129 (talk) 18:20, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Sources and “original research”

What are the sources for the allegation that Adler was a Soviet spy? Which source exactly says “Sol Adler was a Soviet spy”? I can’t find it. Looking at the footnotes to me this looks very much like “original research” (or slander, actually). —Gregor Kneussel (talk) 02:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

The sources for the allegation are now more prominently displayed at the beginning of the article, and supplemented in a new section. There is nothing here as far as I can tell that meets the definition of "original research." This page was apparently started as part of a project to create entries for all of the participants in the Ware, Silvermaster, and Perlo espionage groups, hence much normal biographical information was left out. This needs fixing; I have tried to make clear where the claims of espionage came from in the intro, added some basic bio info, rearranged the structure to make things clearer, and chopped out a reference to Chen Hansheng, which I don't think belongs here. (Proof of Adler's espionage doesn't depend on a picture). Discussion of Adler's role in the gold loan is also confused and needs rewriting. More references for for Adler's work at the liason department are needed. Will apply for removal of NPOV and original research tags when done. Rgr09 (talk) 21:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite

This was a difficult entry to fix, especially since it seems to have been controversial. I've restructured to put biography first, espionage material second. Espionage material is highlighted to emphasize where various claims come from. Most of the original citations were to pdf files of senate hearings or fbi files. I feel this is not appropriate and does give the impression of original research. There are plenty of secondary sources to cite. Finally, I changed the description at the beginning from "Soviet spy" to "Soviet intelligence source." This is not attributing my views to others, but is the common description of Adler; thus Kathryn Olmstead in her biography of Elizabeth Bennett, Red Spy Queen, says "Soviet documents confirm that Adler was indeed a Soviet source." (214 n.52) Rgr09 (talk) 06:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

misinformed about China

Characterizations of the "Central External Liaison Department" in this article are inaccurate. The correct English term for this office is the International Department of the Communist Party of the PRC. See the wikipedia article on the Ministry of State Security of the People's Republic of China for a factual presentation of China's intelligence services. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.103.202.100 (talk) 04:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Central External Liaison Department

Two points are made in a comment above: 1) the English name of the CELD is supposedly incorrectly translated, and 2) the nature of the CELD is incorrectly described; apparently the commenter does not believe that it is a Chinese intelligence unit

1) The Chinese name of this unit (zhongyang duiwai lianluo bu) is still often translated as Central External Liaison Department; this is a word for word translation and I have seen recent FBIS translations still using this name. The Chinese Communist Party began translating it as International Liaison Department sometimes in the 1980s, then changed it to the International Department in 1995. These are all English variations, the Chinese name has not changed since the department was created in 1921 (according to David Shambaugh, see below). Since the source material cited in the article uses the term Central External Liaison Dept, and since Adler's service apparently dates from the early 1960s to the early 1980s, predating these terms, it seems perverse to insist on using the name "International Department" here.

2) China's intelligence services are diverse and complex. To offer the scanty Wikipedia entry on the Ministry of State Security as an introduction to all of China's intelligence services is completely inadequate. Although the Department has done different things at different times, intelligence collection and analysis have always been important parts of its work. There is a booklength study available: The Chinese Secret Service by Richard Deacon, rev. ed. Grafton Books 1989, which has some information about the Department's intelligence functions (pp. 253-254), but of course this is quite out of date. There is a relatively recent article on the Department by David Shambaugh: "China's 'Quiet Diplomacy': The International Department of the Chinese Communist Party" in "China: An International Journal" 5:1 (March 2007), 26-54. This article deals mostly with more recent functions the Department has taken on, but does note that even today intelligence collection remains one of its functions.

All details of Adler's work in the Department are unknown, at least to me. That he worked there as a regular staff member seems certain, otherwise why did he live in Department housing? More to the point of the article, Adler must certainly have been a well-regarded CCP member to have worked for the Department. Rgr09 (talk) 11:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Adler and Venona

The following statement was recently added to the lead:

 Adler was confirmed as a Soviet agent by the Venona Project as a member of the Sound/Myrna Group.

However, Adler was not identified directly in the Venona material. The Venona decryptions included a message from an agent using the cryptonyn 'Sachs'. 'Sachs' was later identified in Alexander Vassiliev's material as Adler. This is explained later in the article, with proper sourcing; there is no need to move this complicated issue into the lead. It is also confusing to refer to the Golos - Bentley network as Sound/Myrna without any other references. Please leave a note here if you see problems with this.

I have also revised the description of the Central External Liaison Department in the lead; for my comments on this organ, and the translation of the name, see earlier on the talk page. To my embarrassment, the Richard Deacon reference is by no means a reliable source; Shambaugh, however, is. Rgr09 (talk) 15:44, 28 October 2015 (UTC) Rgr09 (talk) 15:44, 28 October 2015 (UTC)