Talk:Spiritus Domini (Pope Francis)

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Reliable sources widely wrong on this[edit]

In a very unfortunate turn of events, the reliable sources are reporting this wrong. There are two levels of service involved: one is the instituted ministry of Acolyte and Lector. The second is the "temporary altar ministry" of altar server and lector/reader. The instituted ministries have always and everywhere been exclusively for men. I know of no diocese or bishop who has instituted women to these ministries, it was illicit all along. On the other hand, practically every diocese except a few have admitted women and girls to the "temporary ministries" which has been allowed since Pope St. JP the Great in 1991. I think it remains to be seen whether this will actually force bishops and pastors to admit women and girls to everything. I don't see that interpretation as a foregone conclusion. I think these sources are wrong, but this is all WP:OR so who cares? Elizium23 (talk) 18:54, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The thing about instituted ministries is that they are used sparingly. In my diocese of Phoenix, the only *men* to be instituted are seminarians! As a man, I could not be a Lector or Acolyte if I tried! Elizium23 (talk) 18:56, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The CNA article is, as always, measured and accurate, and the NCRegister and Catholic Herald UK have both picked it up on the wire service. These three are WP:RS. The French source which I was able to delete, and the NCReporter have garbled the news, which is unfortunate, because they should be the most happy about it. Elizium23 (talk) 19:27, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I assume that Francis only intended to change one word of the Latin typical edition of the CIC and that the differing translations of the excerpts in this article are due to Latin-English translation and not the typical wording? Elizium23 (talk) 19:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: If you can find a RS explaining the nuances you described, it would be great to add it and its information to the article.

As for your second point, indeed Francis only removed "Viri", cf. previous Latin version vs current Latin version. Veverve (talk) 20:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: I added a CNS quote to explain the nuances of the situation. Veverve (talk) 06:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seems redundant but OK Elizium23 (talk) 19:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not LEMs[edit]

As should be obvious from a close reading of lay ecclesial ministry, LEMs are not liturgical ministers and that article does not apply to the instituted ministries covered by Spiritus Domini. LEMs consist of people like "parish administrator" types in pastoral ministry. Pastoral ministry is not liturgical. Elizium23 (talk) 08:54, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Redundant[edit]

I don't see the reason for adding a WP:QUOTEFARM quote of Pope Paul VI when the point is made directly in the next sentence. Elizium23 (talk) 06:00, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: I wanted to add what Paul VI precisely said about the instituted ministries. Veverve (talk) 06:06, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why not expand what exists with a paraphrase? Elizium23 (talk) 06:12, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you've used a WP:PRIMARY source again. We use reliable secondary sources for analysis and context. Elizium23 (talk) 06:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: I have now added a secondary source along with the primary source. Veverve (talk) 06:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]