Talk:Splice the mainbrace

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Images[edit]

I've just had a quick browse through the Imperial War Museum digital collection, and found two images of sailors receiving a grog ration during WWII. I've not replaced the fair use image, however, as they're only pencilled drawings (Image:Royal Navy Grog issue.jpg, Image:Rum Issue, John Worsley.jpg). If anyone feels one or both'd be worthwhile sticking on the page, feel free. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 19:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

20-inch brace??[edit]

I can believe a 5-inch brace on Victory. but a 20-inch brace? Probably not. a 20-inch mainstay would make sense.

The quote says "20 inches around; perhaps that's circumference? That would mean a 20/π = 6.4 inch diameter.
I can accept that, but I think we should change the article to "6-inch diameter", since the diameter rather than the circumference is customarily used for cordage size. I would also still like to see a reference. -Arch dude 00:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I took it out - it doesn't add anything to the article and must have been from a source I later rejected as it isn't in any of the notes. Yomanganitalk 02:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Until relatively recently, rope was measured by its circumference. Nelson's men would have called a very large rope a 20 inch rope. Dave Gittins.

Definition of the "mainbrace"[edit]

I do not pretend to be an expert on sailing ships of the line, but I thought that the mainbrace was the principal fore and aft support of a ship's masts. IOW, a brace.

From the description given here I cannot see how there would not be two of them, or indeed why they would need to be of suge enormous diameter. Other references seem to describe the mainbrace as the line holding the main yard in place up the main mast, which is clearly impossible if not for the simple reason that such a line is not a "brace" but a yard.

Given that the mainbrace is the line which goes to almost to the top of the main mast for fore and aft stability, leaving aside whether other masts were supported by this line, does give reason for it's size and the immense problems of it's repair in battle - and why such a repair was so urgent necessity.

Has any expert a clarifying view, or reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drg40 (talk • contribs) 12:50, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you are right off the beam. A line providing fore and aft support to a mast is a stay. A brace, such as the mainbrace, goes to the end of a yard and controls its angle to the centreline. Each yard has two braces.

Personally, I'm sceptical about the supposed size of a mainbrace of Nelson's day. It had to run through blocks and be belayed to a belaying pin. Must inquire!

Dave Gittins — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.232.211 (talk) 08:55, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"U.A." (for under age)[edit]

In history, it talks about the Royal Navy and then goes off at a tangent to suggest that only those of 20 and + can drink the rum. The alcohol laws are the same on a royal navy vessel as on land I.E 18. Other web sites appear to be copying Wikipedia and spreading this misinformation. Who added this 20 age thing? Where did it come from? Aspro (talk) 12:45, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ending the Grog ration in the United States Navy[edit]

The article states that the USN grog ration ended after the American Civil War. It in fact ended DURING the American Civil War. Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles issued an order that the grog ration end on August 31, 1862. Gcal1971 (talk) 13:58, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So the article mentioning “Those under 20 were marked "U.A." (for under age)” is only specific to the US navy and the article should be corrected. See post above. Aspro (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Aspro (talk) 20:05, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Once more, the actual main brace[edit]

Even after we have come down from a 20 inch diameter main brace (see discussion above) to a five inch diameter main brace, this still seems very dubious to me:

  1. The given source says that « the VICTORY's main brace was of 5?" hemp ». The question mark makes me suspect that maybe a fraction was lost here, or it was the circumference again; or, the author wanted to express doubt.
  2. Looking at images of the HMS Victory the main braces do not look anything like 5 inch diameter.
  3. A five inch line would be appropriate for a mooring line for a very large vessel, but hardly part of the running rigging (image of a modern mooring line)

Compared to other parts of the running rigging, the main brace is not exceptionally thick, but very long. The German edition of Jens Kusk Jensen's book on traditional sailing vessels ("Handbuch der praktischen Seemanschaft auf traditionellen Segelschiffen", 1998) lists on p. 172 the length of a main brace on a Barque as 636 Danish foot = 200m, by far surpassing even the halyards. But why it would be more difficult to splice than any other line in the running rigging is unclear to me. At first I thought it might have been necessary to splice it together from several parts, but apparently the British Royal Navy used a standard of 1000 ft ≈ 300 m ropes as supply, so there goes that... -- Theoprakt (talk) 21:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The claim that the main brace would be "the prime target" for enemy gunfire is even more dubious. To aim for a single rope from a distance of more than a few meters would seem to be very difficult even with modern firearms, and plainly impossibly with age-of-sail weapons. -- Theoprakt (talk) 13:31, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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