Talk:Square knot insignia

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Name[edit]

Propose rename to "square knot emblems". I don't think we need to disambiguate this any further- to my knowledge, the BSA is the only association to use these. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK with me.Rlevse 15:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note the images are not showing up on the article page.Rlevse 15:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Those images don't exist. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They do now, I created images for all of the official BSA knots, and have added them to the bottom of the page as well as a brief overview of how they are properly worn. Feel free to juggle or categorize as you see fit. If I missed any knots, let me know and I will make sure to look it up and design it. RobHoitt 19:30, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • support rename and rewrite as inclusive of many other World Scout associations, Japan and Mongolia and let me dig through my stack of them... Chris 02:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are saying that these orgs use the square knot emblems as well? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am. B-P intended the symbolism for all, evinced by the World Crest. It's not uncommon to see other orgs with square knot "fruit salad", though less frequent than, say, a troop in Utah. Chris 03:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Before 1973 Scouting in the Netherlands had figure of 8 knot insignia see Piet Kroonenbergs Padvinderskroniek: Scouting in Amsterdam-Noord page 5 --Egel Reaction? 14:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Up in the Lawrence L. Lee Scouting Museum we have complete uniform sets for several countries, I have seen knots on a couple, although most are figure 8 knots, not square knots. I know the signifigance is that the square knot is a "joining knot." This is mentioned in the Webelos and Boy Scout Handbooks. What I do not know at this point is if the knots in other countries are used for the same reasons as in the United States. We have a curator who is currently working part-time, I will have to see if he can help me research this. RobHoitt 13:33, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • support rename I think the article could be best served by indicating it is of the Square Knot Insignia of the Boy Scouts of America or Square Knots (BSA) —Preceding unsigned comment added by RobHoitt (talk • contribs) 01:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh! My bad. RobHoitt 21:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

A problem here is that we now have two different representations of the same images. We have knot images here and different knot images at Advancement and recognition in the Boy Scouts of America. We are also starting to fork the Advancement article (as I had anticipated) into articles like Silver Buffalo Award. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the formatting for the emblems needs to be left-justified or gallery-style, rather than centered. Chris 08:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to format the page as you see fit... What I was looking to do was create a consistent set of graphics that could be used in a variety of ways. One benefit I was looking for was having the graphics a uniform size and quality. (I am working on an article right now about a distinguished Scouter who had an impressive display of these, so I thought it would be nice to show his knot-rack in an illustration. Photocaps would make this very awkward and difficult, so the graphic route seemed the logical direction.) The added perk is I made these as public-domain, so if you wanted to display your own knots, or use them for something else, you are welcome to do so. RobHoitt 13:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with that. Rob's images are different enough that they can be used in user pages and the like. My opinion is to keep the official images in articles. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am seeing some old comments here, nevertheless this is a great article and it outlines the BSA knots well. I've used it as a reference several times. Thanks Gadget850 and RobHoitt. Rob your user page is nice to. I've tried setting up my knots to display (having a few) on my user page, well I get here eventually. Have you two thought about adding the knot devices for multiple levels of the awards, i.e. the Scouter's Key with a Commissioner's pin and Scouter's pin device? Bmckown (talk) 03:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I just added four new ones. I have thought about adding devices, but the problem lies in that there are so many permutations that could come up that the project would be a real bear to tackle. So I've limited them to just the Eagle and crossed palms and the Distinguished Eagle as those would be the most common. I am going to produce a sample one (on a training knot) to illustrate how the wearer could identify multiple iterations of earning the award because I was just awarded my second, and would like to show my devices on my user page. Feel free to use them in your article to show how devices would be worn. I'll leave the words up to the community, and will focus on my pretty pictures. :) RobHoitt (talk) 03:13, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scope and direction[edit]

Before we get to far into this, we need to determine the scope of the article. Currently, I see it as two sections:

  • History of BSA square knot insignia
  • Gallery of square knot insignia

I did update Uniform and insignia of the Boy Scouts of America with a section on Square knots that was needed in that article, and can be used elsewhere.

I'm thinking that these should be two articles— "History of square knot insignia" and "Square knot insignia." We do not need to disambiguate further unless someone *really* believes that there are other organizations where we would write the same articles.

The history section does need a re-write, mainly for tone. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense to me, altough I would call the latter "Gallery of BSA square knot insignia." RobHoitt 18:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to change the categories from Youth, Adult to Youth, Adult and All. The following Knots can be earned by both Youth and Adults

  • Venturing Leadership Award

- reference link http://www.scouting.org/Venturing/Awards/leader.aspx

  • William T. Hornaday Knot

- reference link http://www.scouting.org/Awards/HornadayAwards/Awards.aspx

  • James E. West

- reference link http://www.usscouts.org/awards/jameswest.asp

  • William D. Boyce

- reference link http://www.usscouts.org/awards/boyce.asp
Change links on the following knots

  • OA Distinguished Service Page to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honors_and_awards_of_the_Order_of_the_Arrow

  • William T. Hornaday [Change name to add T in middle] and to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_T._Hornaday_Awards

Quartermaster Award
Sea Scouts (-1949)(1998-Present) Sea Exploring(1949-1998)
[need to change wording. It has always been Quartermaster Award, however the period of 1949-1998 was under Exploring] (Check page 303 of Sea Scout Manual for verification)
Add Knot for Eagle Scout with NESA Life Membership Stnfll (talk) 19:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Seniortroopleader.gif[edit]

Image:Seniortroopleader.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fix Immediately[edit]

The large photo at the top is upside down. The one without colors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.221.93 (talk • contribs) 21:53, August 5, 2018 (UTC)

  • This comment is referring to the knot on the Scouter infobox. US BSA knot has the top portion (portion coming over) of the square knot to the right as worn.— Preceding unsigned comment added by E.w.bullock (talk • contribs) 23:54, April 23, 2020 (UTC)
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