Talk:St Helen's Church, Lincoln

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What is notable?[edit]

There are three entities to consider:

St Helen's Church, grade II* listed and "the oldest church in Lincoln"
Holy Cross church, a non-notable church building
"Holy Cross and St Helen's Church" or the "Congregation at Holy Cross and St. Helen's", which is an active church community as Boutham parish, but has no claim to notability.

Wikipedia does not have articles on every church building, or every church congregation. I suggest that we need one article on the one notable entity, St Helen's Church, with incoming redirects from Holy Cross and from the joint name of the congregation. PamD 07:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Holy Cross and St Helen's Church, Lincoln into St Helen's Church, Lincoln[edit]

St Helen's is grade II* listed, and thus unquestionably notable. Neither the more recent building of Holy Cross church, nor the joint congregation which worships in the two buildings, has any claim to notability. Yes, a hygiene bank operated from Holy Cross, but that's sadly nothing unusual and not a reason to have an article on the congregation. I have reverted the conversion of St Helen's to a redirect, but seek formal discussion rather than just converting the joint congregation to a redirect pointing to St Helen's.

To clarify: Holy Cross and St Helen's Church, Lincoln is a "church", in the sense of a congregation of believers, but is not a "church", in the sense of a building. The congregation has no claim to notability. St Helen's church, but not Holy Cross church, is notable as a building. PamD 08:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd argue that Holy Cross is actually notable since it's on sites such as A Church Near You which has lists of pretty much all churches in the England with an article or not. Additionally, other sites such as World Anglican, British Cactus and Succulent Society, the Lincoln Diocese and other sites mention it so Holy Cross is definitely notable even if it's a minor church. Similar really to Birchwood Church, St Katherine's and Thomas Cooper Memorial Church. So either the page could be rewritten or if it's moved to St Helens Church, create an infobox for Holy Cross and section for it since the church exists and is notable if one looks more into where it is especially a society and diocese which are official sites. DragonofBatley (talk) 12:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But "on sites such as A Church Near You which has lists of pretty much all churches in the England with an article or not" is not an indication of notability. Yes, it shows that it exists, but we do not have an article on every church in the world, or even in the UK. There seems nothing notable, in WP terms, about either the Holy Cross building or the joint church congregation. PamD 17:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the merge template was removed from St Helen's Church, Lincoln without any explanation and with the unhelpful edit summary of "Slight tweaks", (though not removed from Holy Cross and St Helen's Church, Lincoln: I've removed that now), I've taken this to AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Holy Cross and St Helen's Church, Lincoln. PamD 13:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]